brotherGood

So, ever since everything was put back together..ive fought this odd whine. It seems to be RPM dependant, no matter if it's in park or in gear. It puts me in mind of a vacuum leak, but the only thing I've not checked is the under dash stuff..which even then the noise isn't full-time.

I've not pulled belts off yet to isolate pulleys, simply because it doesn't seem like a bad bearing with as intermittent as it is. Someone brought up the fact I've got cheap plug wires on it, but I would have thought if they were bad enough to be that loud..that I'd feel it as well and I dont.

any guesses?

Vintage Chief

I don't get it. Is that the correct video? Certainly can't hear a whine in all that exhaust noise.

brotherGood

maybe just the fact I'm used to it, but its there. Kind of a higher pitched whine/squeal vs the exhaust.

BangScreech4-4-2

Put a stethoscope on the alternator. I've heard many that had a high pitched whine, IIRC due to worn needle bearings. Seems to be a GM thing.

tru-blue 442

Check for a dent in the transmission dustpan. A 69 should be metal. I could be the flex plate rubbing just enough.

brotherGood

well, I'm in my 2nd alternator as I thought this was an issue once before, but that didn't change anything.

BangScreech4-4-2

Bummer. Now that you mention it, I think I recall that.

Couldn't hurt to poke around underhood with the stethoscope, though.

Sugar Bear

Disconnect and plug the vacuum hose that goes into the cabin/dashboard through the firewall. See what if anything changes.

brotherGood

agreed.. just figured a shot in the dark may bring up something I hadn't thought of.

brotherGood

it's definitely worth the shot. Do I plug before or after the canister?

Sugar Bear

Start with before right at the manifold. No need to plug the hose, just the port/source on the intake. FYI, none of the HVAC ducts or doors will work with it disconnected. All air should come out on the floor.

brotherGood

Okay.

I've only ever run the HVAC maybe twice anyway..so I wont be missing much for the test.

droldsmorland

Has the noise been there since all the rebuilding? Almost sounds like power steering pump whine. Or like true-blu said the flex plate rubbing on the inspection cover.
Drop the belts and eliminate accessory drive parts.

Still there? Where? Engine or trans? Does it run and shift OK?

Look at the distributor cap to rotor interference.

After that I lean toward the trans. Pump whine? Converter chatter?

If you think its engine, drop the engine oil and filter. Look for metal. Cut the filter open.
Trans? Drop the trans pan look for metal.

Keep us posted as you eliminate things one system at a time.

brotherGood

Yeah, the only time I can't find it having happened was first start up. Though, nothing was really hooked up yet either.

My gut says PS pulley or AC pulley, it's the intermittent thing that throws me off. I'll unplug the HVAC line first, and then next move on to the AC as that'd be the easier one for me.. lol

droldsmorland

Provide more detail...When did this noise rear its ugly head?

Check the power steering pump fluid level. Thats as simple as it gets.
Turn the steering wheel back n forth while the cars parked engine on. Sound normal? Give it 1500-2000 rpm and do the same thing. Still sound normal? If yes its likely OK.
If in doubt pull the belt.

I don't understand this statement...."I'll unplug the HVAC line first." I'm hoping you mean the electrical connection?
Thats really not the most direct troubleshooting direction if you suspect the pump as the problem. Pull the belt.

Stock or aftermarket AC?
Was the AC "on" when you pulled away in the video? Yes? Then the AC compressor should make the same noise in park with AC on and varying the RPMS... Still sound normal? Its not the AC.
Do watch the clutch when its not electrically engaged. It should not turn with the belt while engine is on. If it does there another problem.

Again pulling the belt eliminates the clutch and the pump.

Im trying to help you zero in without a lot of screwing around AND frustration. So hold off on yanking things apart. Keep it simple.
Re read my first post and answer the Qs in it and in this one.
Steve

Vintage Chief

Dropping the belts is a great place to begin esp. since it appears RPM dependent (either in Park or in gear) coupled w/ the fact you didn't hear this whine before anything was hooked up and put back together.

brotherGood

The noise seems to be load dependent. I have videos from when it was first running (without any accessories hooked up, and vacuum sources plugged other than carb/dist) and it did not make the noise. I have videos of when everything WAS hooked up and the idle was stupid high (my doing, nothing to do with anything other than that) and the noise is just screaming in park. Initially, that's what led me to believe it was the alternator. After swapping it, and realizing that wasn't the case, I was soon sidetracked with bigger issues. Now that the bigger issues have been resolved, I can focus back on the noise. It does not matter of there is steering input or not, it will make the noise. The AC has NOT been turned on as I know I have a line with a crack in it.

As far as the unplug the HVAC statement-that was to eliminate a vacuum leak within the HVAC system as a problem. With the amount of mice pulled from this car, that wouldn't surprise me if that's the culprit..but then again I would think the noise/leak in that instance would be immediate/full time and/or dependent on what the HVAC is doing (on/off/doors/etc).

It runs and shifts well (aside from dialing the tune in, but thats not related to the noise) so that makes me mentally check off an engine/trans issue. Rotor/cap interference is worth the look for sure, but I've had the cap not quite on there and it was a significant running issue.

After sleeping on it though, I'll more than likely just bite the bullet and pull belts first. Maybe I can get lucky and it'd be the AC..but worst case even if it's the PS pulley, it shouldn't be *too* difficult to change..lol.

tru-blue 442

I was thinking where I had heard this noise before and remembering an old Chevy I had where the alt fan was tinging like
this on one of the brackets that hold the alt. You may check there.

SY2455

It's not a vacuum leak, the sound is mechanical in nature. Almost like a Gear Driven Cam as it increases with RPM. I would be looking at the following.

1. Transmission Fluid Level.
2. Power Steering Fluid Level.
3. Flexplate cover plate clearance.
4. Fan versus Fan Shroud clearance.
5. All Accessories Bracket to Drive Pulley clearance.
6. Alternator Fan/Bearings.

On a side Note I cannot hear it in Any of your other videos. After the above list your are definitely getting more involved as the you will be looking at the Transmission, Differential etc.
I suspect that you will find it at the front because of the nature of it. Really curious about what you find.

brotherGood

This is the only video I have on my YT showcasing the whine. This was with the new alternator already installed, and yes the RPM is WAYYY too high for idle, but you can hear it a little bit in this.

Sugar Bear

If the alternator is suspect unplugging it should change the noise somewhat unless it is a bearing in bad condition.

droldsmorland

Sure does sound like gear whine like a gear drive timing set.
If it were my car after eliminating the accessory drive system, I'd unbolt the converter...push it back into the trans, and run the engine. That's splitting the dictionary in troubleshooting terminology. And it didn't cost you parts just time.

SY2455

Not sure how to say this lol. However I can see 11 videos with your 442. The 1st that I can see is 1 that is a short video post about 18hrs ago with you pulling out of your driveway. It shows a very distinct mechanical sound. I based my reply off of that video from leaving the driveway. It's definitely a better video for showing your problem.

What I called the driveway video is the same one in your 1st posting.

brotherGood

Yeah, I couldn't believe how few videos I had of it, honestly. I know initially it was hard to hear due to the blown out exhaust (especially when not wearing headphones for the videos) but now that the exhaust is fixed, you can really hear it.

If I can get off work in time tonight, I'll unhook a belt then try it, at least to knock those possibilities off the list.

brotherGood

Well, I didn't get home in time to mess with it last night, but I did fire it up this morning and realized I could get a much better video of the noise. I didn't have time to do any further digging, but figured I'd throw this on there in the meantime.


Hopefully there's a break in the weather this weekend and I can get out and do some wrenching/troubleshooting.

Sugar Bear

Sounds hydraulic, either the transmission or power steering. Pull the PS belt first. Disconnect the torque converter and push it back next.

BillK

Sounds like transmission to me in that last video. Maybe Power Steering ? Pulling all the belts off and starting it up would verify it.

brotherGood

I just called the guy who helped get the converter seated in the trans, as when we were putting everything together that was a struggle and a half. He says he's certain the converter is seated correctly, but later in the conversation we were discussing how I would have thought I would've felt a transmission issue or a steering issue if either were going bad (causing the noise). He asked about the AC, to which I told him there is a hole in a line so I've not messed with it yet. He said he's seen where the compressors make the noise when there is no oil in them, which brings up a solid option and once again gets me back to needing to pull belts. If I get out of work in time tonight, I'll start with that one as that will be easier to get to than the PS belt. At the very least, itll knock one off the list as far as what to troubleshoot.

droldsmorland

This is the best clue.....accessory drive.

BillK

Do you remember if you could spin the converter easily to get the bolt holes lined up ? If so it is probably in correctly.

Only if the clutch engages which normally it will not if there is no charge in the system. Plus you would have to turn the AC on.

If it is the PS pump it should change the noise some as you turn the wheel from side to side and will really get worse at full lock to one side.

brotherGood

No issues getting the holes aligned..the issue was keeping it from spinning too much.

As far as the AC, that was my thought as well..but he said it basically turned into an idler pulley at that point when not engaged, and if it's bad then it makes the noise.

I dont recall hearing a tone shift when turning the wheel..or really any noise/drag when turning the wheel.

droldsmorland

The AC compressor will not/should not engage without refrigerant in it. The low PSI switch is designed to lock it out with low/no refrigerant to save the pump from self-destruction. It will hold out the pump clutch from engagement.
Is the AC OEM or aftermarket?????

If it is in fact somehow engaging without oil or refrigerant its smoked. Plan on rebuilding it. Don't try to charge and use it. Catastrophic failure will ensue and will blow trash throughout the entire system. That's not easily removed.

brotherGood

Its an oem unit. In not saying the compressor may be engaging, but that the pulley may be the culprit. I have not done anything with the AC since finding a busted line while trying to charge the system

BillK

I dont think I have ever heard the clutch bearing make a noise like that.

brotherGood

Well, it's not anything on the accessories unfortunately. I also went ahead and pulled/plugged the vacuum line going to the HVAC canister just for giggles to no avail either.

Pops said he talked to a friend of his who was pointing toward the pump as well, and pointed out how it sounds like it's coming more from the firewall area when listening with hood up, and the fact it's much louder inside the car than outside.

So..I reckon I'll go ahead and get it in the air and pull the dust shield and see what we can find out.

SY2455

Being that you have eliminated the auxiliary drive accessories. You better plan on checking the transmission pan for materials that shouldn't be there. Do you still have all your gears. In your 1 ( 7 minutes +) video. To me it appears that your transmission is kinda sliding each gear shift even though you stated that a shift kit was installed. If you are interested I can post up the recommendations for the W-30 Turbo 400 upgrades. Let me know if you are interested.

brotherGood

correct, it has a kit installed. We've pulled the pan once to replace a gasket, but I don't remember seeing anything. It doesn't have any shifting/gear issue that I've noticed, but I'm also coming from an 8 speed and a 3 speed 904 Mopar.. lol

I'm going to call the transmission shop in the morning. I don't remember what the warranty was on it, but I doubt it's still active. If you've got upgrade info, I'll take it for sure. If imagine anything more than a stock rebuild plus shift kit would be beneficial.

droldsmorland

Check the converter bolts. If you didn't tighten them with blue removable loctite they could be loose.
That TH400 should have firm 2-3 upshifts.
Cut your oil filter open and drop that trans pan.

brotherGood

ya know, thinking back I think we just used grade 8 bolts. The converter called for a different size than what I had, and a different size than the "Gm torque converter bolt" pack at the parts store. With that being said though, I don't remember putting loctite on them. If they've loosened up, could the noise be fixed by simply applying loctite and torquing back down (assuming no metal found in pan/filter)

BillK

Loose converter bolts will not make the whining sound you have. They might make a rattling type noise but not the whine.