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Hello! I'm the administrator for my uncles estate. He had a 1970 442 project car he was passionate about. Before he passed he managed to get the engine running and fresh gold paint. There are tons of parts that should make a full vehicle but little in inventory management. The car is located in north DFW.
What is the best way to go about selling this passion project? Auto trader? listing on the classified here? Having it restored then selling?
Any ideas what the value is?
Thank you for looking! Any advice is much appreciated!
Will
You are wanting a valuation without any pertinent information. You really need an appraiser or a very qualified enthusiast thats familiar with 442/Cutlass. Its partially re-assembled. This might be considered a "project" car. Do you have a title ? Is the engine original to the car ? Is the transmission original to the car? What does the body tag show ? Is it really a Cutlass ? Is it a 442 clone ? What options does it have ? Others will chime in with their thoughts also.
Having it restored is probably not the way to go if you are just looking to sell it in the end unless you find someone who is willing to help you put it together. Although the value of a completed car will surely be more than a project car, paying a restoration shop to finish the car is unlikely to make sense financially as you will probably pay the shop more than the difference in sale price. Finding someone local who can help inventory the parts would be a good start, or just list it on craigslist/ facebook/ here. If you list it as is, you really need to get pics of all the parts and a lot more pics of the car including inside, under the hood, in the trunk, the vin tag, and the cowl tag just for starters.
Condolences to you, family, and friends. Was your uncle a member of the N Texas Olds Club? There are a few members in the club that can help you. Contact member redoldsman (Glenn) who can probably point you in the right direction.
Club link: North Texas Olds Club (hemmings.com)
Thanks Eric. Feel free to contact me. There are several knowledgeable people in the club to help. We can also place an ad free of charge in our monthly newsletter.
This will sound counterintuitive, but you will not want to hold out for top dollar on this project. The best home for this car is with someone who knows them, and he will not overpay. Think "good home" over "every penny."
Currently no one here will be able to give an accurate estimate without more info about the car and much more detailed photos (unless a member lives nearby and goes to inspect the car in person). At this point it is not yet clear if it is a real 442 or a cutlass with 442 parts added. Although, I have no problem with "cloned" cars there will certainly be a difference in value between the two. If it is a 442 is it number matching or collection of random parts?
Plenty of opinions here. Make sure it is a 442 vin. Honestly if it were me I wouldn't post it anywhere. I would deal with people directly. This is the kind of car that could bring out the vultures. If it is indeed a factory gold car. That is very desirable. If the hood is factory that is huge. One thing that I have noticed in my years is that my opinion only of course. 90 percent of factory fiberglass hood cars also had sport mirrors. This car does. Be careful. Don't get taken. Don't think it is a million dollars. Find a good trusting middle. Oldsmobile people are good people. Just watch the sharks.
Agreed, take the time to get a professional or knowledgable Olds person to take a look and verify numbers.
Inventory the parts. Originality makes a difference. No rust does as well.
Get some good pics of the undercarriage, engine bay, interior floors, trunk floors, lower trunk & door seams, lower body panels from underneath the car, frame rails etc.
All good metal with many or all of the correct parts makes a huge difference in final dollars.
Hagerty values for a real 442 base model as follows : If by chance this car is a W30, the price will go up substantially
#2 Excellent $47,900
#2 vehicles could win a local or regional show. They can be former #1 vehicles that have been driven or have aged. Seasoned observers will have to look closely for flaws, but will be able to find some not seen by the general public. The paint, chrome, glass and finishes will all appear as excellent. No excessive smoke will be seen on startup, no unusual noises will emanate from the engine. The vehicle will drive as a new vehicle of its era would. The one word description for #2 vehicles is "excellent."
#3 Good $33,100
#3 vehicles could possess some, but not all of the issues of a #4 vehicle, but they will be balanced by other factors such as a fresh paint job or a new, correct interior where applicable. #3 vehicles drive and run well, but might have some incorrect parts. These vehicles are not used for daily transportation but are ready for a long tour without excuses, and the casual passerby will not find any visual flaws. "Good" is the one word description of a #3 vehicle.
A quality finished restoration will usually fit into the #2 category and soon drop into the #3 zone with some driving on the street. Because the car is still in pieces, you will likely only get about half of the finished values. This assumes the car is a real 442 with the original engine/transmission. As others have stated, you need an inspection by a knowledgeable person to assess it's true worth. We don't have any way to know based on the info you have provided.
tc
Last edited by 4+4+2=10; June 29th, 2021 at 07:49 AM.
You’ve come to the right place to get a valuation for this project car. It’s good of you to help figure out the estate. Many of us here are old enough to know what you’re doing.
Before going to market, is there a young person in the family or close friend who’d like to take on this project? If you’re horse trading assets among surviving heirs, this is a good chip for the right person or family branch to be made whole in trade for their share of some other asset some other members want.
The people here are generally honest as you can see from the comments above. Get a bunch of pictures of the car to demonstrate & expose what flaws it has, then get pictures of the parts boxes. Informed buyers can make a sensible bid when they have pictures they need to put a price on the labor to finish the project and the value of the finished item. They also need to know what parts are missing. We’re 50 years after manufacturing. There is a reproduction parts market, but the more you can show prospective buyers about the parts that are already there the more confidence ion the parts piece when bidding.
Valuing a restoration in process is mostly a judgment call, but you can bound the problem with completed car values & project car values. See Bring A Trailer and EBay for data points. And the classifieds here on ClassicOlds for the past 2-3 years. The classic car market fluctuates with the disposable income of those who care about them. Don’t go back much more than 24-36 months for pricing data points. The good news is lots of people who care about early 70’s muscle cars are still alive. Some have time & money to finish this project.
Get some comparisons (comps) of completed cars to get a sense of the upper end of the price range for this year & model, then discount that by the labor which is, as yet, undone. Plus a further discount for any parts which may be missing. Paint and engines are two of the most expensive parts of a project car. Assuming those are done right, that’s 60% of the resto battle.
I’ll let more knowlegdable heads than me pick their numbers but this looks like something worth $20K- $25K as a project, which might be worth $40-50K when done. As noted above, more if its a genuine, rare, W30 model. Disclaimer: I’m less knowledgeable on Cutlass/442’s since I keep mid-60’s Big Cars (Starfire & 98). I’d echo the sentiment above that you’re looking for the right person to finish it, rather than getting the absolute last nickel out of it.
In case all the 442 and W30 talk is confusing, these were high & higher performance versions of what most people would call an Olds Cutlass. Pretty much the same body, but with special badges and special to very special engine components. So more rare than your average Cutlass and so more valuable.
Also be aware that fraudsters rebadge & sometimes fake VINs to get more $$ for Cutlasses masquerading as rarer 442’s. There’s an outside chance your uncle got stung by this. Assuming that didn’t happen, provide the information Olds people are looking for to demonstrate that you’ve got the genuine item happily and you’ll do right by your family.
Hello! I'm the administrator for my uncles estate.
Any ideas what the value is?
One thing that determines the car's value is how quickly you need to sell it. Some of the suggestions above could take months or even a year to accomplish. As the administrator of the estate, do you have any kind of deadline or "reasonable" time limit to get the car liquidated? Do you have heirs breathing down your neck who couldn't care less that it's a 442 and just want it sold so they can have their share of the proceeds?
You could put it on ebay and take whatever it fetches. You might get $10,000, $20,000, who knows. But you'll have it gone in a week or two, and there is some value to this to you as the administrator who probably has a lot more to deal with than just this car.
Or you could do everything suggested above and spend six months to a year selling it. You'll get more (maybe), but it will also take you more time, perhaps a lot more time. Time has value. Will you be paid from the estate for the time and effort you put in to get the most you can for this car? If you can be compensated, whatever you're paid comes off of whatever is gotten for the car. Plus, the longer it takes to sell, the more you'll have those pesky relatives calling you every other day asking if it's been sold yet. There is value in NOT have to deal with that.
Last edited by jaunty75; June 30th, 2021 at 10:16 AM.
Determining the value of this car is only as complex and time-consuming as you want to make it. It’s also really very simple.
Keep in mind that there is no single value for a 442 in any state of condition. Calling in an appraiser creates its own set of problems. You'd probably want more than one appraisal for something like this, so let's say you get three. If all are close to each other, you've learned something. But if they vary widely, then what do you do? Take the average? You're hardly any better off than if you hadn't bothered with appraisers in the first place.
I think your best source of price information is hard data on cars that have recently sold.
Below are the first two of 15 pages of auction results for 1970 442s from the Mecum auction website. The total is almost 300 cars going back to auctions held in 2007. The more recent results are the more currently-relevant ones, and these first two pages are for auctions going back to 2019.
There are 21 cars on each of the two pages, or 42 cars total. We can throw out two categories of results, those for convertibles and those for W-30s (yours is presumably not a W-30). Interestingly, out of the 42, that leaves only six cars.
Here’s the results for those cars
$36,300 (sold)
$84,700 (sold)
$57,000 (unsold, bidding stopped at this number)
$56,100 (sold)
$27,500 (unsold, bidding stopped at this number)
$28,050 (sold)
I include the unsold cars because where the bidding stopped, is, I think, a reflection of what the market thinks the car is worth regardless of what the seller thinks it’s worth.
The average of these six is $48,275, so let’s call it $48,000, or maybe just $50,000 to one significant figure, which is probably about as much accuracy as you need if all you're doing is setting an asking price. I think that’s a reasonable starting point. If your car were complete and driveable, AND it was in showroom or near-showroom condition, it would reasonably be worth this approximately $50,000 value. I doubt anyone would seriously argue with this.
Now start subtracting for issues specific to your car. For one thing, it’s in pieces. I think that reduces its value by at least half. Even when put back together, it probably wouldn’t be considered in showroom condition unless every part were new or like new and it received a complete repainting. So subtract a few thousand more for that.
When all is said and done, if it were me, I’d stick a value of $25,000 on it, and, if you get $20,000 or more, you’ll have done well. Take the offer and get the car gone. If it just sits at the $25,000 asking price, you’re learning something, and you’ll have to lower the asking price.
It seems to me that the goal here is more to get the car sold than it is to get top dollar for it. It’s not a high-value 442 as 442s go. It’s not worth trying to determine its value down to the nearest penny either as it currently sits or what it might be if put back together. That much precision is not needed. The nearest $5,000 or $10,000 in round numbers is good enough for the purpose of establishing an asking price.
Last edited by jaunty75; June 30th, 2021 at 11:03 AM.
Thank you all for everyone's messages and help!
I'm headed out to the farm tomorrow to take more pictures and inventory of all the parts to help with the listing. I'll get lots of pictures! I'll come back with more information tomorrow afternoon.
The vin on the dash and title is 344870M161872
Hello All, Just returned from the farm with a lot more details and pictures. Not much is original on the car, looks like a crate engine and all new rear end set up for drag racing maybe? I'm not sure where to go from here since its not a restoration and it does not appear to be a rest o mod. any guidance is much appreciated!!
Looks very clean.
Power window power lock car?
Dual Gate shifter, W27, F heads, should be a 455.
I see plenty of good parts there. If you can verify through the documentation it is a W30 442 that adds significant value... read on....
That is an Olds engine with F heads (W30!). F heads very are desirable. The numbers on the engine block deck below the thermostat will tell you exactly what it is(see links below). <edit good eye Mike and Stefano the 6 digit code 403686 indicates E heads not F>
The small pad on the block under the F on the driver's side head behind the power steering pump will have small stamped numbers on it. If the last 6 digits in the VIN are the same as the last 6 on the block that confirms the block is original,
That is a TH400 trans. It will have the last 6 of the vin stamped on the driver's side oil pan rail. It will also have a large tag on the passenger's side. See if you can get to that and the VIN ID.
That is a W27 rear end. Very valuable.<edit this is a cast iron 402227 rear end not a W27 See Stefanos post below #44>
Do you have the interior? Is the dash apart?
That Offenhauser dual quad intake is valuable to the right person.
Look around for any more parts to the car. Original intake carb distributor air cleaner assembly wheels etc...The more you have the better for you and the car.
The next thing is to track down any paperwork. Owners manual, warranty card(POP) engine work or other receipts owner history, etc. Paperwork adds value. The only way you will get W30 money is to prove it's a W30.
Thank you all for everyone's messages and help!
I'm headed out to the farm tomorrow to take more pictures and inventory of all the parts to help with the listing. I'll get lots of pictures! I'll come back with more information tomorrow afternoon.
The vin on the dash and title is 344870M161872
So by the way. I am pretty sure all the custom order colors came from Lansing. This gold is one of those colors. Your car came from Lansing. M in the VIN tells you that. You may have quite the gold mine there. If that is an actual W-27 rear and it looks to be. That rear end alone is mad mad money. Your car looks to have very desirable options etc. Man I would love to hear that cars history. Don't take any low ball offer. He must have been a super cool dude. Look at the chromed driveshaft etc. Definitely an Oldsmobile man!! What a cool car. Dual Quad 455. Possibly with an F head motor? F heads look legit to me. I see zero grind marks. I love it.
Last edited by no1oldsfan; July 1st, 2021 at 03:24 PM.
Can the experts tell if that Is that a repop W-30 decal? I know a real decal wouldn't prove anything, but might add credence if other nuances are there. Appears the front fenders have been replaced.
Lots and lots of incorrect piece parts are installed, but F heads can be a 5 - 6 K boost and a W-27 rear in the condition that one appears to be in might add another 10 - 15 K uptick in the value alone. If the VIN derivative stamps on the trans and engine match up and there is an OW tag on the trans, I would call Steve Minore and try to get him out to evaluate the car. Info about Steve with contact email.
Last edited by 4+4+2=10; July 1st, 2021 at 04:57 PM.
Can the experts tell if that Is that a repop W-30 decal? I know a real decal wouldn't prove anything, but might add credence if other nuances are there. Appears the front fenders have been replaced.
Lots and lots of incorrect piece parts are installed, but F heads can be a 5 - 6 K boost and a W-27 rear in the condition that one appears to be in might add another 10 - 15 K uptick in the value alone. If the VIN derivative stamps on the trans and engine match up and there is an OW tag on the trans, I would call Steve Minore and try to get him out to evaluate the car. Info about Steve with contact email.
Obviously that decal never came on a chrome plated cover. His uncle loved chrome obviously. Love this car.
Love your car. I know the OAI hoods are on everyone's cars. Look how good your car looks without. Nice.
Thank you. I do have a factory OAI hood waiting for instal/paint. One that you tipped us off on in Littleton a few months back as a matter of fact. On a forum like this we do see relatively few regular hoods and I've even grown a little weary of seeing the OAI hood so often on my screen.
However, out in the wild, I never see any Olds on the street, let alone OAI equipped examples. But, DANG I do like the looks of that dual scoop hood when I see one in person. Years ago I rode to work with a fella that had a U Code 72 442 with OAI and the view out and over that hood is really something.
tc
Last edited by 4+4+2=10; July 2nd, 2021 at 06:57 PM.
I'm used to the view over a first generation Monte Carlo hood, which is the longest hood Chevy ever made, and this H/O I have made me notice the snoots. Still getting used to the humptiness (and double the hp).
Thank you. I do have a factory OAI hood waiting for instal/paint. One that you tipped us off on in Littleton a few months back as a matter of fact.
That's great. Did you get that hood? One of my brothers (I have five) knows the history of the car that that hood came off of.
PS: Take it from someone that owned a one owner factory OAI hood 442. One of the coolest views out of a muscle car ever. It is actually supposedly the second most effective outside air hood made. The 6 barrel/bubble lift off hood on the 69 Roadrunner Superbee was supposedly the best because it was raised above the curve of the front of the car. I was fortunate enough to drive one of those cars too. Being the last of seven had it's rewards sometimes.
Last edited by no1oldsfan; July 2nd, 2021 at 10:09 PM.
Yes, I drove out with a pocket full of Benjamins from near Wichita KS to get it. The owner is an occasional lurker on this forum and saw your post. This hood wasn't off the car you thought it was however. He bought it for his 71 SX years earlier but of course it really never looked right because of the grill differences. He had it stored after he found a 71 version. It is a great example of an original piece.
I am 100 percent certain where that hood came from. It came from a factory 70 W-31. It was parted out in the late eighties. Maybe early nineties. My brother bought all the factory exhaust off the same car.
June 28th, 2021, 01:04 PM
Help estate value 1970 442 valuation
