Trading for a 442
July 28th, 2009, 01:47 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 24
Trading for a 442
Hey guys I'm new to the board and wanted your opinions. Let me start by saying I have always been a MOPAR owner, but I have always loved the Oldsmobile 442 and Buick GS cars. I recently found what appears to be a super clean 1968 442 in my area.
The details I have been given on the car is that its an original 442 Sport Coupe 2 owner car. It has 68,xxx miles on it as confirmed by its title (for whatever that means) The car is supposed to be from down south and from looking at the undercarage I believe it. Its also supposed to be a number matching 400, 4spd car. Its painted a medium metalic blue with the white 442 stripe on it. I had the car up on a rack and the underneath looks very solid. I also took a paint guage and magnet over the whole body, as well as a visual and hands on check and it appears to be pretty much body filler free. One odd thing it has solid (boxed) control arms which I found pretty odd from my experience with GM's. All the electronics on the car work including the original radio.
Couple issues I found
1.) Somone painted the motor orange and chromed it up.
2.) The front seat bench/buckets was swapped out at some point with early 70's swivel buckets. While they look ok they are to tall for the car and make getting in an out very difficult.
3.) The steering wheel was swapped for a small grant unit.
I am trading the guy my 2002 Indian Chief, value of 11-13k and 1000.00 in cash for the car.
My questions
1.) How can I tell if the motor is number matching?
2.) If when I get original buckets will a big guy (6'3, 290 lbs) fit in the car and be comfortable? As I mentioned with the swivel buckets I really have to crane my neck to get in.
3.) Does this seem like a fair price?
4.) Is the 1968 442 a good year, I know a couple buddys have told me the undersquare motor isn't the greatest.
The details I have been given on the car is that its an original 442 Sport Coupe 2 owner car. It has 68,xxx miles on it as confirmed by its title (for whatever that means) The car is supposed to be from down south and from looking at the undercarage I believe it. Its also supposed to be a number matching 400, 4spd car. Its painted a medium metalic blue with the white 442 stripe on it. I had the car up on a rack and the underneath looks very solid. I also took a paint guage and magnet over the whole body, as well as a visual and hands on check and it appears to be pretty much body filler free. One odd thing it has solid (boxed) control arms which I found pretty odd from my experience with GM's. All the electronics on the car work including the original radio.
Couple issues I found
1.) Somone painted the motor orange and chromed it up.
2.) The front seat bench/buckets was swapped out at some point with early 70's swivel buckets. While they look ok they are to tall for the car and make getting in an out very difficult.
3.) The steering wheel was swapped for a small grant unit.
I am trading the guy my 2002 Indian Chief, value of 11-13k and 1000.00 in cash for the car.
My questions
1.) How can I tell if the motor is number matching?
2.) If when I get original buckets will a big guy (6'3, 290 lbs) fit in the car and be comfortable? As I mentioned with the swivel buckets I really have to crane my neck to get in.
3.) Does this seem like a fair price?
4.) Is the 1968 442 a good year, I know a couple buddys have told me the undersquare motor isn't the greatest.
July 28th, 2009, 02:46 AM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brazil Indiana
Posts: 11,509
i did not know till recently but there were 442s made in Canada. just look close because i don't think that the stripe is in the correct spot. there is an entire thread on this. not all 442s had this stripe so it could have ben just added to the car.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...n-springs.html
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...n-springs.html
July 28th, 2009, 02:53 AM
#5
olds..older..oldest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 364
GM of Canada
Good looking car [and bike!!] The beauty of the Oshawa,Ontario made cars is that you can write to GM here and they can give you the full build sheet info on that car as it came off the line in 68. Senior +/or Cndn. site members will chime in with that info if you request it...just don't ask Joe P. unless you want a discourse on W-36 option stripe correctness
Derek[Barrie, Ont.,Canada]
July 28th, 2009, 06:26 AM
#7
H/O emblem on trunk is not correct, Shade of blue I dont think is correct. Engine should have C heads and block G if I remember correctly. Unless you are racing the 68 400 is fine. Price is about the going rate I would say. Maybe you can negotiate some because of the seats and little things that arent quite right...engine too...it should be a bronze color. Correct seats should work for your size. Boxed control arms were standard on the 442 and help verify the car. Maybe someone can decode the firewall tag for you. Not a bad car overall it would appear.
July 28th, 2009, 07:29 AM
#9
Trying to remember member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
Welcome and congrats, you're off to a great start with that Olds. Here's the link to the GM site to get your documentation:
http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/shopping/parts/vintage
The VIN derivative stamp should be on the engine block on the front drivers side just underneath the large letter (should be C) on the head.
VIN derivative stamp should be on the trans too to verify originality. Body tag indicates it is a M20 wide ratio Muncie. Should have a 12 bolt cover 10 bolt "O" rear.
The wheels are incorrect for '68, too, but it just depends on how original you want it to be.
The boxed rear control arms and sway bar are what give Olds superior handling.
Post coupes rule!
http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/shopping/parts/vintage
The VIN derivative stamp should be on the engine block on the front drivers side just underneath the large letter (should be C) on the head.
VIN derivative stamp should be on the trans too to verify originality. Body tag indicates it is a M20 wide ratio Muncie. Should have a 12 bolt cover 10 bolt "O" rear.
The wheels are incorrect for '68, too, but it just depends on how original you want it to be.
The boxed rear control arms and sway bar are what give Olds superior handling.
Post coupes rule!
Last edited by wmachine; July 28th, 2009 at 07:34 AM.
July 28th, 2009, 09:50 AM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 24
All GM's have that lean LOL, especially when I'm in them. I had a 72 Impala and man that car had a serious lean. The hurst badge was put on by the previous owner, the people who have it now told me right away it wasn't real. They seem to be fairly honest and even put car on a lift for me.
July 28th, 2009, 09:51 AM
#13
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 24
i did not know till recently but there were 442s made in Canada. just look close because i don't think that the stripe is in the correct spot. there is an entire thread on this. not all 442s had this stripe so it could have ben just added to the car.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...n-springs.html
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...n-springs.html
July 28th, 2009, 09:52 AM
#14
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 24
Welcome and congrats, you're off to a great start with that Olds. Here's the link to the GM site to get your documentation:
http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/shopping/parts/vintage
The VIN derivative stamp should be on the engine block on the front drivers side just underneath the large letter (should be C) on the head.
VIN derivative stamp should be on the trans too to verify originality. Body tag indicates it is a M20 wide ratio Muncie. Should have a 12 bolt cover 10 bolt "O" rear.
The wheels are incorrect for '68, too, but it just depends on how original you want it to be.
The boxed rear control arms and sway bar are what give Olds superior handling.
Ok one more question what is the differance between the post sport coupes and the Holiday Coupes? Seems the Holiday Coupes where just loaded up with options? Way less Sport Coupes built then Holiday Coupes.
Post coupes rule!
http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/shopping/parts/vintage
The VIN derivative stamp should be on the engine block on the front drivers side just underneath the large letter (should be C) on the head.
VIN derivative stamp should be on the trans too to verify originality. Body tag indicates it is a M20 wide ratio Muncie. Should have a 12 bolt cover 10 bolt "O" rear.
The wheels are incorrect for '68, too, but it just depends on how original you want it to be.
The boxed rear control arms and sway bar are what give Olds superior handling.
Ok one more question what is the differance between the post sport coupes and the Holiday Coupes? Seems the Holiday Coupes where just loaded up with options? Way less Sport Coupes built then Holiday Coupes.
Post coupes rule!
Last edited by pgh442; July 28th, 2009 at 09:58 AM.
July 28th, 2009, 10:13 AM
#15
Trying to remember member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
Is it worth getting the documentation? I have heard some say that it doesn't really show much. The original build sheet was in about 10 million pieces. Also what is the differance between the O and C rear ends? I'm a Jeeper by nature also and I know Jeeps built in Canada typically had the stronger D44 rear ends over the US Dana 35, The D44 is much stronger.
Yes, the documentation is worth it (IMHO). It does show every option the car came with. I'd still try to piece together what you can of the millions of build sheet pieces!
July 28th, 2009, 02:28 PM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Palm Bay, FL
Posts: 4,249
If you look at the engine under the drivers side head under the large cast letter (should be) "C" you should find a machind pad. There will be numbers stamped into the block there. Should read 38-XXXXXX. 3 is Olds, 8 is 1968, the - will be a letter denoting the plant where the car was manufactured and the X's match the last 6 of the VIN on the car. That will tell you if the engine is original to the car.
July 29th, 2009, 12:21 AM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 338
same
I think the bottom line is that if you want a 442, it's getting hard to find them in that shape with that much documentation! BTW, that's the 1st year of that series! '64-67 was the 1st body series. Solid buy!
Ralph
Ralph
July 29th, 2009, 01:42 AM
#18
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 24
I have always wanted a 442, I used to like the later model HO cars the best. But with that said the 68 has really grown on me the past few weeks. I like the way the rear tail lights look simple and not overdone. I like the grill, how it doesn't meet the hood like the later models. I also like the front end it reminds me of the 67 slightly.
July 29th, 2009, 03:17 AM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,076
The real clincher is the fact it is a four spd car, for me that is a must have. The 68 400 is not a strip motor but for the street and stop light to stop light it gets the job done.
Great car go for it.
Great car go for it.
Last edited by Nilsson; July 29th, 2009 at 03:19 AM. Reason: spelling
July 29th, 2009, 08:29 AM
#20
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,446
About 3/8". 
The Type O axle, despite having 12 bolts on the rear cover, only uses an 8.5", ten bolt ring gear. The Type C is the traditional Chevy 12 bolt axle, which has an 8.875" ring gear held on with 12 bolts.
The Type O axle, despite having 12 bolts on the rear cover, only uses an 8.5", ten bolt ring gear. The Type C is the traditional Chevy 12 bolt axle, which has an 8.875" ring gear held on with 12 bolts.
July 29th, 2009, 09:29 AM
#21
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 24
Well I'm deffinatly going to get the car I took out half the 1,000.00 today and next Friday I plan to take out the rest. Now to find a set of clean buckets to recover and a white center console for a 4spd. The buckets will need to come first so I can yank those ugly swivel buckets and actually be able to fit in the car.
July 29th, 2009, 09:54 AM
#22
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: columbus ohio
Posts: 1,132
id wait,and i sure as hell wouldnt give a dealer a deposit.
have you driven the car?that front end is sitting pretty low
no reason to jump on a car you havent really checked out,numbers wise.
when the dealer calls,and he will,tell him youre looking at another 442,youll get back to him.
let him knock his price down,if he wants your business.
1968 isnt the most desirable year of 442's,because of the motor situation.
vin stamp is on a small pad right where the head meets the block in the front drivers side corner,behind the power steering pump.
last 6 digits should be the same as car vin.
have you driven the car?that front end is sitting pretty low
no reason to jump on a car you havent really checked out,numbers wise.
when the dealer calls,and he will,tell him youre looking at another 442,youll get back to him.
let him knock his price down,if he wants your business.
1968 isnt the most desirable year of 442's,because of the motor situation.
vin stamp is on a small pad right where the head meets the block in the front drivers side corner,behind the power steering pump.
last 6 digits should be the same as car vin.
July 29th, 2009, 01:05 PM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 80
Work towards the bike for the car and $1,000 from the dealer and settle on a straight up trade.
July 29th, 2009, 01:24 PM
#25
Registered Luser
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: LI,NY
Posts: 3,783
Post some pics of the seats and engine! If the seats are out of a '70's 442/cutlass supreme/HO, somebody may be interested in buying them. Orange engine....is the dist in the back? Hope it isn't a ......
July 29th, 2009, 01:58 PM
#26
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 24
I tried but on trade to deal on the price but thats all we got to. I know the dealer he has a great rep. He said he checked the #'s on the engine, trans, etc and it all matched (which I will confrim). He even wrote that in the wording of the contract #'s matching 1968 olds 442 so if hes lying hes looking at a hell of a law suite. As far as desirability the 400 motor is the same from 1968-1972 right? The HO eblem while not being correct isn't a deal breaker. It amazes me that a 1968 442 is less valuable than a comprable 1968 Chevelle SS. I prefer the Olds 442 over a Chevy any day.
Here are some more pics.
The seats are swivel buckets and came from a cutlass or Monte Carlo, I'm thinking 73-76
Here are some more pics.
The seats are swivel buckets and came from a cutlass or Monte Carlo, I'm thinking 73-76
July 29th, 2009, 06:22 PM
#30
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 24
I'm hopeing at some point the the intake was switched...could have been a Turnpike cruiser optioned car 400 2bl. that got swapped out. I'll be bummed if its not number matching. I was looking forward to getting it.
July 29th, 2009, 06:46 PM
#31
Trying to remember member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
Guys, this is exactly why I keep saying the term "numbers matching" means nothing unless you say *what* numbers match *what*!
July 29th, 2009, 07:32 PM
#32
Registered Luser
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: LI,NY
Posts: 3,783
First, get confirmation on the #'s, then tell him "$4K and the car for the bike!" That will leave some money to correct some of the issues, and find a BBO for it! It still is a pretty nice car, just not for what he wants...
July 30th, 2009, 03:08 AM
#37
so you are giving him the bike and $1000! You say the bike is worth $12000.
I would say maybe $4000 for the car and you sell the bike else where.
The car looks nice, but many hands have been in that car. The engine has been swap and manual drum brakes and no power steering. Also the bucket seat swap and the add on stripe that is not factory. It may be nice, but not $13000.
Gene
I would say maybe $4000 for the car and you sell the bike else where.
The car looks nice, but many hands have been in that car. The engine has been swap and manual drum brakes and no power steering. Also the bucket seat swap and the add on stripe that is not factory. It may be nice, but not $13000.
Gene
July 30th, 2009, 05:16 AM
#38
More non correctness....splatter paint like in trunk should not be on firewall, when painted hood hinges have overspray. Look how rusty master cylinder is, wonder what all was sprayed over on the car to perhaps hide rust.
