88 coupe

None of us can know what we haven't learned yet.

Norm

Red Delta

Why couldn't the carb be the problem? It was brought up from time to time in the thread. It couldn't hurt to swap it out real quick and save a bunch of hassle.

My thought about 'pulling camshafts' was in reference to the possibility that the cam may not be the right one for the engine, so I figured, to verify that it is correct, one would have to remove it to measure it.

88 coupe

Not impossible, just not likely.

Is that evidence that the carb is the source of the problem?

Poor choice for proper diagnostics.

The existing carb, is a "new" Edelbrock. Is it possible that it could be defective? Yes. Question is, how could a carb cause the engine to be "down on power"?
All of the above can easily be checked and/or corrected without removing the carb.

Norm

Red Delta

I understand that, however, these are tests that require knowledge on how to diagnose and correct these issues. I personally would not know how to check this and before I spent time attempting to adjust or change settings on this carb, I would throw on the carb that was set for the engine since that would be the easiest solution for me.

If it turned out that the carb was the issue, then I would educate myself how to make the necessary corrections.

While this may be the wrong way to diagnose a problem, it's how I would approach it.

captjim

In the original post, it was stated,
"Block was bored 40 over, stock compression pistons"

Do you know the part number of the piston used? The true Cr still has yet to be determined, correct? So, there is still the chance that the compression is around low 8.xx to 1, which IMO makes that cam too big, not to mention that you do not know where it was installed. A classic problem (too much cam not enough Cr) which will cause the car the under perform. IMO.

380 Racer

Doh........now that shows your true intellegence. I think it's almost time for you to go back on my ignore list. No need for me to read your vast stupidity anymore.

ijasond

I think I do have the info on the pistons. I'll have to dig through the filing cabinet at work on Monday, I'm pretty sure the paperwork is stored away in there.
My brother called me over to help him epoxy his garage floor today and I just got finished. I'll have to run those tests tomorrow.

ijasond

I didn't understand the importance of degreeing the cam at that time.

Can it be done without pulling the engine from the car?

ijasond

Norm was actually saying something to give me a little encouragement during the learning process I'm currently going through. I don't understand the need for comments like this when I'm just trying to learn some Oldsmobiles.

And you misspelled "intellegence", which is so ironic that I actually laughed out loud... twice.

380 Racer

So I mis-spelled a word, unlike Norm I am not perfect. I try to help if I can. Again unlike Norm I will not answer if I don't know the correct answer. I saw Norm's "helpfull" answer and encouragement as a slam. How many words did I screw up that time Chuckles?

captjim

Certainly, it is just a tad more difficult as you are bending over and dealing with stuff in the way. It is a little harder to read the numbers, too. For future reference, like in the videos I made, I always degree the cam with the head off and only the # 1 piston in the engine. It makes it easier to rotate and thus get more accurate readings. As always, IMO.

442scotty

if your cars rear end is stock my guess is that it is geared too high for the cam...thats what was wrong with my 65 when I bought it...the previous owner had lots of cam but the car was geared in the mid 2's...it was real bad...enough that he dumped it..the part number on your cam looks very familiar...i know the one I scrapped was mondello

I redid the 455...Cr about 9.5 to 1 ..put in a comp cams unit that gives lots of torque from the start not 1500 rpm...

I have an edelbrock 750 carb (1411) on an edelbrock manifold...I purchased a carb jet/rod kit and I hooked up an air fuel ratio sensor to tune the carb.
carb runs great now that its set up correctly (had to change the jets and metering rods).

My car pulls real well even with the lousy gearing. With my 2004r trans I am doing 1650 RPM at 70 MPH so I am going to change the gears to 3.08 and I should have a car that pulls even stronger and gets awesome mileage..

My cutlass is a little lighter than your car so I can see why you are having problems..

Just one other thing..I have a HEI dist in it now but I am putting in a unit from performance distributors that is tailored to my cars specs and hope that will make it better still..

Just my two cents..and stuff that I have learned from playing with my car...and am continuing to learn....hope it helps...good luck

ijasond

Just one, but I won't hold it against you.

I really appreciate everyone's help. I take everyone's advice and just try to figure out which will help me the most. I'm a young guy who happens to like Oldsmobiles and has a lot to learn about them. This is a good place to do just that. I deal with different kinds of people and personalities all the time, so I'm used to it, but I hate to see people get so worked up about disagreements. Sometimes people just have to agree to disagree and let it go.

88 coupe

Changing parts, until a "solution" is found, is not how that knowledge is acquired.

The only "wrong way" is one that does not produce accurate results.

Norm

88 coupe

Indeed.

Norm

380 Racer

Ya know Norm, I let this argument die.........why don't you just drop it?

88 coupe

Would not have been necessary, had you not started it.

If you want it "dropped", simply stop posting.

Norm

88 coupe

Makes perfect sense if it is done during assembly.

If the heads are on, a "piston stop" would be used to locate TDC.

Vernier, dial, or digital, calipers are less expensive options to a dial indicator and mag base.

Makes perfect sense if one is checking a Chev.

With an Olds, #6 is checked to verify that the cam (39° or 45°) is correct for that block.

Norm

citcapp

Enough already,

ijasond, did you get the information you needed or are you still looking for more information?

captjim

"Makes perfect sense if it is done during assembly."
True, it was just a tip for him and others for future reference.

"If the heads are on, a "piston stop" would be used to locate TDC.

Vernier, dial, or digital, calipers are less expensive options to a dial indicator and mag base."

Here is a nice kit for $110, and a dial indicator belongs in every tool box, IMO.
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/81621/10002/-1

"Makes perfect sense if one is checking a Chev.

With an Olds, #6 is checked to verify that the cam (39° or 45°) is correct for that block."

Good point, I am used to the "newer" Olds engines. I also understand that some builders do it to verify cam tunnel location and align bore straightness.

ijasond

Not entirely. I still need to get the compression test results, gear ratio & timing info on here. I planned to do that this past weekend, but I volunteered myself to help my brother saturday, and then we had some pretty nasty storms Sunday so I wasn't able to get the cars out to work on it. I'll get that up as soon as possible and see if it may shed some light on where the problem(s) may lie.

I guess until then we could start a new thread to keep the bickering separate from the information that might actually help someone.

citcapp

ijasond

I have confidence that this thread will clean up just fine

Pat

captjim

Still need the piston part numbers, if you have them.

ijasond

I went out tonight to start trying to gather some of this info and I think I've already come across something quite substantial. I decided to get the rear end ratio first because it was easiest.

If I'm figuring this wrong, let me know because if I'm figuring it correctly, It's crazy.

I jacked up one wheel and put it in neutral.
turned the wheel ten times and counted the driveshaft rotations.
15.33 plus or minus a tenth or two.
I didn't trust my results due to the fact that I was counting two objects rotating at different speeds. The result was the same.
I still didn't think this could be right so I crawled under and turned the dive shaft until the wheel turned ten times marking chalk on the floor each time the drive shaft made a revolution so that I wouldn't lose count.
Counted up the chalk marks on the floor, 15.33.

The following is from the tech board and is the method I used. I've never heard of a gear ratio that high. Could this be right?? If it is, I guess I found my problem. I neglected to do this until now because everything on the car was stock when I got it, so I assumed(***, you, me?) that the rear end was too.

"turn the driveshaft enough times to turn one wheel ten times, and count the number of times you turn the driveshaft. This is because it may be difficult to tell if the driveshaft goes around, say, 2.56 or 2.78 times for one turn of a tire. But if you turn the driveshaft enough times to turn a wheel ten times, you will have 25.6, or 27.8, or 41.1 (or whatever) turns of the driveshaft. Then just divide by ten to get the ratio of the rear. "

J-(Chicago)

That method is inaccurate in my opinion.
Your rear end ratio should be stamped on the ring gear. It's a lot easier to just open it up, and check.

When was the last time you changed your differential fluid?

If the gear stamps are 17_ 41 It's a 2.41 gear ratio
41/17=2.41

ijasond

It seems like it makes sense, but a 1.6 ratio??

Maybe I should go check the blinker fluid.

442scotty

only one wheel turning instead of two so I would say you have 3.08's

ijasond

That makes sense too, but why would they say to jack up only one wheel?

ijasond

got a good look at the code on the rear end, but it's hard to make out what it says.
looks like L36 or L3G followed by 9778080

ijasond

If you are right, wouldn't that count of 1.6 be doubled? Making it a 3.23?
This would be correct if the "3" was actually a "Q". It didn't really look like a Q, but it was hard to tell.

442scotty

could be...but you said 15.33...or 1.53 X2 which would be 3.06 which I read to be 3.08......which wouldnt be bad gearing for the street and gas mileage if thats what you have

ijasond

You're math is better than mine, obviously. I'll have to go look at those numbers on the rear end again. It's really hard to make out, but It looked like L3G or L36. The 3 could have possibly been something else. I got it clean and took a nice bright light under there and I still can't tell what it is.
I haven't calibrated the speedo yet with the new wheels & tires so I'm not sure how accurate these numbers are, but i'm turning 2500 RPM at 60.
My tires are 27 inches tall so I'm probably actually doing a little better than 60.

88 coupe

15.33± divided by 10 = 1.533± times 2 = 3.066±.

40 divided by 13 = 3.076

Count the teeth on the ring and pinion anyway because, after all these years, the fluid needs to be changed. Until then, you can assume you have a 3.08 gear.

Norm

88 coupe

So you could turn both wheels. That way, you would not have to do the "multiply by two" part.

Norm

88 coupe

Between a 3.31 and a 3.42.

Your 27" needs to be turned into a more accurate dimension.

Mark one rear tire at its bottom point and continue it onto the pavement below it. Roll the car, in a straight line, until the wheel/tire has made exactly one revolution and mark the pavement the same as before. Measure the distance between the marks on the pavement.

Then, when making tire/speed/gear/RPM calculations, be sure to choose a formula that uses tire circumference rather than diameter.

Norm

88 coupe

I use my verniers regularly, but I cannot remember the last time I used any of my indicators or mag bases.

How would one perform those operations by "degreeing" the cam?

Norm

ijasond

Opened up the rear and I counted 40 and 13 on the ring and pinion.
Also discovered some oil so black Jed Clampett would be jealous.

442scotty

One mystery solved...Now the pistons...and that cam.....take a lot at the XE-250H Comp cams extreme energy unit..sure works for me...I also use their roller rockers and had the machine shop set up the push rods for proper geometry

captjim

Not sure how you assemble an engine, but I use a dial indicator for cam degreeing, varifying cam specs, measuring crankshaft end play, runout on the crank, runout on a flywheel, not to mention setting up a rear. Perhaps you don't, or maybe you don't do engine work.

I posted this,
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ng-engine.html
instead of continually mucking up this thread, it should keep you busy for hours.

88 coupe

Where is the part that addresses my question?

Cam location can easily be determined, using slide calipers.

How can it be done by "degreeing" the cam?

Norm