oldsguybry

I finally got around to digging out the 455 a little from it's seemingly permanent location and thought I'd share a few pics / ask a question or two .....










Does this go here ?

oldsguybry

Continued with above question ..... Like This ?

oldsguybry

I really want to just throw this in the 72 CS . I'm confident it will start , but I'm worried about there being a dead mouse or something inside since I sold the manifolds a couple of years ago leaving open holes leading into the motor . Of course the other obvious reasons would be ..... I need manifolds , move starter to other side of motor , swap oil filter adapter , swap all pulleys and assy's , motor mounts or get new ones , need aluminum radiator , TH350 worn out tranny , one wheel wonder rear axle . There are other issues like , if I put a TH400 tranny in , I would need a certain length drive shaft ? I will have more questions and pics , but this is it to start out .

PS .... The motor sat in my moms garage for about 5yrs .... and obviously should probably get rebuilt

svnt442

OK...yes. That is the heater control valve.

You CAN use the manifolds from your 350 and either find a cap for the crossover or, like many have done, cut the crossover pipe down and weld it shut. Or you can get some manifolds from Thorntons for a BBO http://thorntonmusclecars.com/produc...aust-manifolds and not have to worry about that. I had a set and they are nice. I did find that there was a bit of overlap on the outlet of one of the manifolds and I ground it out a bit. It could have used some more work to be perfect, but I needed the car running more than a perfect manifold.

Use the brackets and water pump (or a new one for the 350) and all the pulleys and you'll be good to go there. You will need a longer alternator belt, but that is an off the shelf item.

With the transmission and a TH400 you will need a shorter driveshaft and a switch for the kickdown as the TH350 uses a cable mounted to the gas pedal for that. Talk to a driveshaft shop and have them make you one. They will want specific measurements and each place is different so as them where to take them from.

The rear end....all depends on what you want to do. You can get a posi carrier and new gears and have it rebuilt, or go full boar the other way with a custom 9". It all depends on how crazy you want to get with the car.

oldsguybry

Thank you . I was wondering if there's two different length TH400's ( short tail , long tail ) ? I don't know where I got that from , but it popped into my mind for some reason . Also , if I do get a different rear axle , is there any different lengths on that where it connects to the drive shaft ( yoke ) ? I'm sure the motor mounts are shot on my 72 CS , so I will have to get those too . I wish I could just use the pulleys and brackets that are already on my 455 seen in the first photo above . We wont go there though . I'll probably get the correct manifolds for this motor instead of restricting it by using the 350 ones . The exhaust is another story .

svnt442

There are two lengths off tail shafts, but BOP short tails are rather plentiful, unlike their chevy brethren.
As far as the pulleys go the only one that would be considered "hard" to change would be the crank pulley because you need to unbolt it from the balancer, but other than that it's no big deal. You will be using the power steering pump from the car I'd think and the fan has to come off to install the engine anyway so that one comes right off. The alternator from your car and it's brackets should bolt right up, so that's a no brainer.

Yes there are different length pinion housings on different axles. Also you parking brake cables will need to be replaced when you swap the trans because they are different lengths due to the change in position of the transmission crossmember.

When you get the manifolds you might want to have them cleaned up at a machine shop so they flow as best they can. Mine really needed more than I did to them, but I was OK with it.

I would replace your engine mounts anyway. Just get new replacement engine side mounts for the 350 and drop the engine in. Don't get all hung up on SBO or BBO mounts....it will work just fine.

Also don't loose the spacer washer on the lower bracket for the power steering pump that bolts to the side of the block above the oil pan. If you do it will bolt up, but the power steering pump will be crooked.

Oh, the reason you want to use your existing pulleys is that way you can walk into any parts store and get off the shelf replacements. If you start swapping pulleys you'll never be able to do that.

oldsguybry

I'm a bit confused by this .... I HAVE to swap out ALL the pulleys , brackets , and assy's or can I use the ones on the 455 ? Is there a clearance issue somewhere ? I think someone kind of explained it but left it sort of unclear as to why . I guess I lied when I said I wouldn't go there

I guess I got confused because you said I have to swap them , but then above you said to use the existing ones . If I have to I will , it will be a fun experience .

svnt442

Use the ones that are on your 350 that is currently in the car. That will make like that much easier when you go to put new belts on it.

svnt442

OK, lets try this.

Water pump....350 (remaned or new)
Motor mounts......new 350
Pulleys.......reuse from the 350
Power steering pump.......reuse from the 350
Belts......new for a 455 in a Cutlass
Hoses...new for a 455 in a Cutlass
Heater control valve...New for a 455 in a Cutlass

I would also inspect the harmonic balancer and make sure that it hasn't spun and that the rubber looks good. You might want to get another one anyway seeing as this one is about 45 years old or so.

oldsguybry

Ok cool . I'm going to do some work on the 72 CS first before I think about doing this . There is sooo much that needs attention at this point . I'll probably start a new thread on that when the time comes . I had one going but stopped doing work on the car a couple of years ago . I have to deal with some more body work before I go to the drive train on this car . I'll have to cut corners with the cosmetic portion of the car because of cost . I can't cut corners when it comes to the tray behind the back window , the rust on the dash board , and one small area on the roof . The seats and carpet are toast . I'm not sure what I'm going to do with that yet .

oldsguybry

Anyone want to buy some old dangerous Red Ramps ?

oldsguybry

Sorry , I should of read a little bit closer because you gave me the answer .

svnt442

No worries.

oldsguybry

This is the current motor in the 72 CS . I had the bushing / clip come off at some point where the throttle cable connects to the carb shown in picture 1 . I put a plastic clip from the chrome trim on there for now to keep the cable from popping off . It fits great , but I would like to see a picture and find out where I can get one . The one on the 455 is not there either . The 2nd photo shows the missing throttle spring clip that is missing also . It broke at some time , and I don't remember what it looks like , or where the broken piece even is . I had to put this clamp on there to secure it for now ......

oldsguybry

Well I'm going to finally dig this motor out and start messing with it . My mom is going through Chemotherapy and it's some scary **** . Among other things , I need to start cleaning up the place and get rid of some stuff . I don't want to lose that motor , so I was going to slip it in there whether it starts or not . I'm of course going to examine some things and get it broke free first .

Torque Converter - There is some old black oil inside this thing . Should there be ? Should I replace it or empty it ? If so , how much oil ? I'll have more questions but this will get me started .

oldsguybry

Nevermind , I should of done a search on this and I would of had my answer , sorry .

RROLDSX

You sound a little overwhelmed. I don't blame you there's a lot on your plate. Firstly, obviously none of this **** matters as your Mom is the first priority. If you get hungry and need a diversion, start by eating that elephant one bite at a time. Prep for your work space by cleaning that garage up and making some logistical sense on how you are going to attack things one at a time. For instance you don't need a new rear end yet. You need to fix the car's weak points that keep it from being on the road. Then accumulate the parts you need to make the engine swap. You've already had some guidance there. You'll find each step is a project on it's own. I made a list a page long just to rebuild the rearend. Lists are critical. I make two for each project. A TODO list and a TOBUY list. Good luck to you and your Mom. They do amazing stuff these days to beat the big C.

PS - Thow those car ramps in the garbage, they are messing with our work space.

PS2 - Get a manual or you won't know what to put on your TODO list.

oldsguybry

Thanks for the advice . I'm definitely going to get rid of the 60's / 70's era ramps , unless they're worth anything .

RROLDSX

They're not! You wouldn't want someone to get hurt trying to use them. Let it go, let it go.

oldsguybry

I was just messing around , I would not want anyone to get crushed when the ramp collapses on them .

oldsguybry

I'm not sure if I mentioned this earlier but the current motor in the 72 CS is a 76 Olds 350 . I don't know if this presents a problem if I'm to swap all the belts and pulleys from this motor to the 455 . I am also assuming I will be using the torque converter from the 455 and the fly wheel has a chipped tooth from the removal process . Will the 350 fly wheel work , or do I need to stick with the one on the 455 ? The distributor cap was broke on the 455 when the chains slipped during removal . I hope nothing else was damaged .

svnt442

They use the same flexplate so you are good there.
If you are keeping the same transmission in the car just use the same torque converter so long as there is nothing wrong with it.
I'm also going to assume (yeah, I know...) that there is an HEI distributor in the 350. You can use that as well in the 455. If you are worried about the gears you can always swap the one from the points shaft, but I have never had an issue with those gears. If you do this you will need to take the timing indicator off of the 350 as the one for the points doesn't have enough markings on it for the HEI.

oldsguybry

Thank you sir .

oldsguybry

I was going to take some pictures , but my phone died ....

455 ID pad on engine block says .... 38M614C63

oldsguybry

Well , I didn't get a ton done today , but I managed to put some PB Blaster on three broken manifold bolts that I didn't break . The good news is that there is plenty of solid bolt left to get it out of there after I heat it up . I'm also happy to report that the cylinder walls are in great shape for a motor that sat in my moms garage for about 7 years . Some cylinders are nice and silver looking ( like they should ) , and some have a grayish oxidized look to them . I took each spark plug out and squirted some motor oil in each hole . The plugs are also in good shape , here are some pictures ....

Engine ID ?


The worst looking broken manifold bolt


A glimpse of one of the cylinder walls


One of the plugs


My ancient oil can squirting device filled with motor oil

oldsguybry

I put a breaker bar on the motor bolt and the motor turns real easy . I'll need to bring a pipe wrench to get a better grip on the broken manifold bolts to get them out .....

oldsguybry

I'm going to have to skip on the manifold bolts until I can get the motor somewhere where they have an acetylene torch . I also parked this car until further notice . The upper portion of the motor mount has a one inch crack in it , and the inner tie rod is ready to pop .

oldsguybry

Ok , lets try this . What side does the starter go on the 455 when I put it in the 72 CS ? Facing the front of motor , does it go on the right or the left , and do I use the 350 starter or the 455 one ? I can't remember . I also can't find the info on what Motor mount / pads to use ( Sorry Joe ) . I know it's Anchor something or another . I can't use the ones from the 350 because the mounts are cracked , and the pads are toast . I'm going to start pulling wires and stuff as soon as tomorrow .Thanks

therobski

I just chimed in on this: you use the engine mounts from the 350 even if you have to buy new ones. The starter goes on the driver side just like the 350. As far as "pulling wires and stuff" remember to bag and tag or else you will have more problems....than you already have....

RetroRanger

starter goes on the same side on the 350 and 455 the drvrs side.

use the small block motor mounts if thats what your car came with SBO is anchor 2261 these are inexpensive like $20 for both.

The 350 starter may not be as robust as the 455 starter but if the 350 starter is in service now I might be inclined to try it first w the 455 rather than try the unknown cond. 455 one.

dont forget youll need BBO manifolds or headers if you have a dual exhaust on your SBO now it should bolt up to BBO w minor massaging.

oldsguybry

Thanks , I did get a bit ahead of myself because I need the mounts before I can start this . I'm going to pull one wire at a time , mark it with a tag , and mark / tag the area it came off of . I'll take a video with my phone along the way if needed . I also want to see where that wire / hose will be hooking up on the other motor as I pull them too . I will see about getting the BBO manifolds if the SBO ones wont fit . This is only temporary so I can get that motor out of my moms garage . I don't know how much longer she will have this house , so I need to get that motor out of there . I'm not going to be able to drive the car much until I can get an aluminum radiator , T400 tranny , and posi rear for it . I have a video of when I took the 455 out of the Toro I use to own , so I can review that also .

oldsguybry

Let me know what website I can enter that engine ID number I listed above to prove that it's what it's supposed to be . I'm curious about that . Thanks again .

don71

Hm..I don't know of any website you can punch that into. I presume the paper tag is gone on the oil fill tube, there are numbers stamped there too. What are those?

Engine #s are..
3 means Oldsmobile
8 means 1968
M mans Lansing MI
The last six are unique to the vehicle.

You have a 1968 block..with a Toronado air cleaner. Does it have the correct intake that matches? How about the distributor numbers?

That would help, if you're trying to document a Toro motor.

oldsguybry

I appreciate the input on this , I was just trying to verify it's an actual 455 . I know that's what came in a 68 Toro , but with my luck I wanted to make sure I wasn't taken for a ride .

oldsguybry

Cool , so the mounting is the same . The 68 Toro I use to have started and ran great , the motor ran very smooth . It must of sat for a number of years though , because it smoked and leaked around the gaskets . You could see a little blue smoke via the tailpipes . I'm going to hopefully get some valve cover , oil pan gaskets for this motor . I suppose I'm not going to be lucky enough to get ones readily available for that year , if not can I use ones from a different year ?

therobski

Here's great site for your olds engines:


http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofe455.htm


Robski over and out...

oldsguybry

Awesome , thanks . I'm going to save this link so I can find it again . I got the Valve Cover , Oil Pan , and motor mounts coming in a couple of hours through Oreilly Auto Parts .

oldsguybry

This motor looks brand new to me ...









NUMBER ON OIL FILLER TUBE .... 8327896

oldsguybry

Here's my not so great engine hoist . Notice how the metal wheel brackets are welded crooked on the rear portion of the hoist , not to mention they point outward . How do they expect you to move this thing ? I was thinking of angle grinding the welds off and positioning them better so they're straight with the front wheels ....







Any tips on what bolts work best to attach the chains to lift the motor ? The one to the right of the number 1 on the intake shown below ?


Here's the bolt on the back side of the motor I was going to use maybe ...


This is an interesting way to hold the gas line in place on the carb .... A set screw ? There are a couple of o-rings in front of it , but you can wiggle it . I will have to replace the o-rings ....

svnt442

The factory fuel filter is missing from that carb. I'm not sure if that can be properly repaired or not, but if it were me I would replace it all together.