72455

Even though I keep it covered and it never sees rain, I'm starting to see the dreaded rust bubbles under the vinyl top of my '72 Supreme. I don't really understand how since I keep the moisture away, but here it is. I guess I shouldn't be too upset since it's been almost 30 years from it was redone, but it still bothers me. Question is, is it something I need to address in the immediate future, or do I have some time to get the $ saved up to have it taken care of?

joe_padavano

C'mon Dave, you live in VA. Humidity is a way of life for us. Unless you store that car in a bubble filled with dry nitrogen, the moisture in the air gets absorbed by the top material. This is why I have to change quarter and roof panels on my 70 W30. I hate vinyl tops.

72455

Ahhh...I had no idea that moisture gets absorbed by the vinyl, but still not clear on how it even sees the humidity because I keep it covered. Does the moisture "creep" under the cover? Not being sarcastic here, just trying to understand how it's happening.

joe_padavano

There's moisture in the air. And of course water passes through a cloth cover. Put some water on the cover and see if the vinyl gets wet. It's also under the cover when you put it on. It's also absorbed by the vinyl when you drive or wash the car, or when it's just sitting at a car show. And unless you've owned the car since new, you have no idea how wet it has been in the past.

72455

So do I need to address it soon, or do I have some time? If I'm not mistaken, winter air is drier, so I do have that going for me, correct?

joe_padavano

If it's below freezing, the air is drier because the water becomes ice crystals. If the temp is slightly above freezing, that water condenses on cold surfaces (like car sheet metal) as liquid water. The fact that humidity feels worse in the summer is due to the combination of heat and humidity. The air in the fall is just as humid but the cooler temps make it seem less oppressive.

lshlsh2

Yes you have time. However it will not stop and get worse the longer you wait and cost more to fix. I would try and fix as soon as possible.

72455

Any idea on the cost, and does anyone make a replacement kit? A quick search on the innerweb yielded nothing.

bccan

Don’t let it go too long. Dealing with the 100’s or 1000’s of pits is a bit of a biotch. Tough to get the rust out short of sandblasting and that isn’t a great idea on a large, flat panel like a roof. Once each rust pit “lifts” off, actually expands, it has taken away some steel with it. The steel in each pit has now been reduced in thickness and once it gets deep enough, there may be pinholes. Most of the pits need filler, that although reliable, raises the chance for a complication or failure, however unlikely. It’s all about mil thickness and material build from first coat of epoxy primer, to filler, to primer, to sealer, to base coat, to clear coat. Once it gets fixed, paint the roof just like the rest of the body would get painted, not left in a porous primer like GM did originally.

Not fear mongering, but we all know it won’t self heal, can only get worse. Our cars, like all things, are constantly trying to return to the earth, via ferric oxide in this case.

​​​​​​….

BangScreech4-4-2

I would at least get the vinyl top off ASAP. Once the moisture gets under there, only ventilation will get it out. Regardless, it looks like there's some surgery in your car's future.

Sugar Bear

^^^ Removing the top, clean it up, and coating the metal will greatly slow the progression. Doing nothing may look better but will accelerate the deterioration/increase the damage.

There isn't a yes or no answer to do you have time to wait. It depends on what you want to do with the car. The best you can do to preserve the car is remove the top now.

Consider removing the top, getting the repairs done, paint the roof sans a vinyl top.

Good luck!!!

oldcutlass

I've found covers will trap humidity inside them even parked inside your garage. The longer you wait to fix it the worse and more expensive the repair will get.

joe_padavano

My money is on holes in the pinchweld area as well as those bubbles under the flat surfaces. Don't be surprised when this turns into major metalwork.

Vintage Chief

Dave - How it played out back in the day when the cars were new is this. Salesman sells car for profit - generally $400 - $1000 over invoice. Salesman gets more cash from add-on sales - undercoat & vinyl top were the two biggies. Dealerships most often maintained rolls of vinyl top (landau) material - in particular a large dealership with a body shop, service garage, etc. A full landau (vinyl) top was literally installed in one day (most often a half day's job). Most often a dealership had the choice of vinyl top color in stock - again, they were sold to dealerships in bulk much like bolts of carpet. Some dealerships had a basic template you laid on a long table or on the ground which accommodated nearly every model in stock. You rolled out (to length) amount of material required for the job then cut to spec off the template. Now, there "were" various years where a landau (vinyl) top could be ordered from the factory, but there was more profit for a dealership to install vinyl tops.

There are many automotive vinyl top manufacturers. I think you need a little more searching. I think yours has seams - you don't have to have double seams - you could go with no seams, as well.

Rip it off (save the clips) & evaluate the rust areas. In the long run I'd suggest you're going to save money by installing a new vinyl top. Like others have suggested - the sooner the better. Hey, nice winter project for you.

Koda

It helps to run a dehumidifier in the garage when above 40 or so degrees.

Vintage Chief

As Eric stated:

Car covers make exceptional vestibules to capture & retain humidity.

BangScreech4-4-2

I use breathable cotton ones, along with dehumidifiers in the garage.

72455

I'm using a cotton breathable cover..one of Covercraft's best, as a matter of fact.

BangScreech4-4-2

... and the car's garaged? Sheesh! Well, when you get the roof sorted, you might go the extra mile and get a dehumidifier. I run two 50-pint units in a 1200 sq. ft. garage and take about two or three gallons a week out of the garage atmosphere at the height of our moist Pacific Northwest winter.

And, hate to say it but ... once you're sure of a dry environment for your car and you have the metalwork done on the roof, it make well be more expedient to replace the vinyl than to refinish the roof.

72455

It's not garaged...it won't fit in my garage.

BangScreech4-4-2

Well, there's your problem. If it isn't garaged, don't cover it. Either you'll have moisture from condensation or your cotton cover will get soaked with rain or snow. In either case, you'll have rust issues.

If it were my car, I wouldn't spend any more money on it until I had a dry place to keep it.

72455

Ok..I'm gonna go down this rabbit hole... whenever it rains, I put a plastic disposable cover over the actual cover to keep any rain from even getting on the cover, and the disposable cover fits loose, so it's ventilated.
​​​​​​
...and if I don't get it repaired (as already stated above), it's only gonna get worse, so that's not an option for me.

Vintage Chief

Dave - I recall from prior conversations you have an external garage port I believe. Now would be a great time for the garage addition/extension (MAW).

Vintage Chief

At the very least, drive to and talk to several of these shops to get some ballpark numbers, ideas, suggestions. Even if they can't do it, you often might find they may know someone who does do it. Will require some leg work on your part to find someone. Obviously you can toss out the "tint shops", etc., but here's a list I pulled up.

International Auto Upholstery
4.6(13) · Auto upholsterer
10+ years in business · Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Mon · (757) 436-6570
"Great little family owned shop. Very fast turnaround, no hassle."
Directions

Wynn's Auto Upholstery
4.4(45) · Auto upholsterer
10+ years in business · Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Mon · (757) 622-9838
"I had a top put on my 96 Toyota Celica and ..."
Directions

757 Auto Upholstery
4.8(18) · Auto repair shop
Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Mon · (757) 622-9838
"At the top of the list was the drivers seat, which was worn down to the ..."
Directions

Greenbrier Upholstery
4.0(14) · Upholstery shop
10+ years in business · Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Mon · (757) 548-1925
Provides: Auto Seat Covers
Website
Directions

Tint Daddy's Of Chesapeake
4.5(278) · Auto upholsterer
7+ years in business · Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 9AM Tue · (757) 289-3321
"AMAZING TINT, KIND, POLITE, BEST TINTING PLACE IN HAMPTON ROADS!!!!"
Website
Directions

This guys decals
4.8(74) · Sign shop
Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 9AM Mon · (757) 967-0615
"Best graphics and vinyl shop in town"
Website
Directions

Fixrite Interiors
5.0(16) · Car detailing service
10+ years in business
Closed ⋅ Opens 8:30AM Mon · (757) 274-8441
Provides: Leather, Vinyl & Fabric
Website

DeSigns Inc.
4.8(198) · Sign shop
Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 8:30AM Mon · (757) 547-5478
"Great work on my trucks vinyl."
Website
Directions

J's Auto Cleaning Service Inc.
4.6(194) · Window tinting service
35+ years in business · Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 8:30AM Mon · (757) 547-3177
Provides: Vinyl Application
Website
Directions

Jerry's Auto Upholstery
4.7(18) · Upholstery shop
10+ years in business · Portsmouth, VA
(757) 397-3167
"... helped me with so much information about my convertible top."
Directions

3 Guns Customs
5.0(41) · Auto body shop
5+ years in business · Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Mon · (757) 337-0238
Provides: Vinyl Graphics
Website
Directions

AG Wraps
4.8(147) · Sign shop
Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 9AM Mon · (757) 548-5255
"Did a Great job on the vinyl stripes on my 2010 Camaro."
Website
Directions

Color Solutions
5.0(10) · Auto body shop
Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 7AM Mon · (704) 460-3181
"Fixed the roof as well as touched up some of my smaller dings and ..."
Website
Directions

Mitchell's Complete Upholstery
4.2(26) · Upholstery shop
10+ years in business · Chesapeake, VA
(757) 547-3568
Delivery
Website
Directions

The Graphics Shop
4.6(37) · Print shop
10+ years in business · Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Mon · (757) 485-7800
Provides: Automotive Window Tinting
Website
Directions

Paul's Custom Interiors/Auto Upholstery
4.3(12) · Auto upholsterer
7+ years in business · Virginia Beach, VA · In London Bridge Plaza
Closed ⋅ Opens 7:30AM Mon · (757) 270-1198
"... and the detail was top notch. I bought another bike and wanted the ..."
Website
Directions

Commonwealth Window Tinting
5.0(108) · Window tinting service
5+ years in business · Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Mon · (757) 646-6357
Provides: Vehicle window tinting
Website
Directions

Custom Carpet & Vinyl Inc.
4.5(20) · Carpet store
Chesapeake, VA
Closed ⋅ Opens 9AM Mon · (757) 436-0202
In-store shopping·Delivery
Website
Directions

Cover-Ups Marine Canvas & Vinyl
No reviews · Boat cover supplier
Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Mon · (757) 312-9292

Tidal Wave Graphics
4.6(18) · Commercial printer
7+ years in business · Chesapeake, VA · In GREENBRIER BUSINESS CENTER
Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Mon · (757) 842-6269
Provides: Automotive Graphics
Website
Directions

72455

No carport..just a driveway.

72455

As a side note, I noticed the damage occurred after Ian came through, so I filed a claim with Hagerty.

oldcutlass

Good luck with that... does Hagerty know the car is parked outside in the elements?

Putting a plastic cover over your cloth cover is basically creating a greenhouse effect locking the moisture inside.

72455

Yessir they know it's kept outside...and I've always wondered about the "greenhouse effect" with the plastic cover. Will have to nix that process going forward.

BangScreech4-4-2

This. A breeding ground for condensation. If you're going to keep it outdoors, let it breathe.

As far as hurricane damage goes, that rust has been percolating underneath that vinyl top for years.

Kensey

What about one of those tarp material car ports? Not too crazy expensive, just not very nice looking. I'd do that if I were you.

Vintage Chief

Home Equity Loan for a garage expansion in your future, Dave?
MAW

72455

Lol.. it's a good idea, but I wanna be debt free when I retire in 7 years, and the house will be paid for in 5 years.

Bfg

I would dump it now before it’s too late.

72455

????

chopolds

Finding a place to replace your vinyl top is the least of your problems. Fixing the rust under it IS! I've had to cut out and weld in panels of sheet metal after stripping vinyl tops off cars. You'd be lucky if it's only lots of rust pitting, with no holes under there. And I totally agree with the others who say covers outside will make rusting WORSE, rather than protect the car. I never recommend car covers, even indoors, to the guys I paint cars for.

4+4+2=10

Based on your pictures, I think you are going to need to reskin the roof. Fortunately they do repop this. One example here roof skin just Google it and you will get several options. Hopefully you have a reputable body shop locally that you can trust. Any attempt to salvage what you have I'm afraid will only result in a return of the same problem down the road.

Agree with Joe...I hate Vinyl tops for this reason and that is why I removed mine.

good luck,
tc

72455

So you're suggesting to just leave it totally exposed to the elements? Sun, rain and snow? Seems like that's gonna cause problems down the road.

72455

If I get rid of the vinyl top altogether, I would think that would affect the value of the car.

BangScreech4-4-2

It would if you're going the councours restoration route. Otherwise ... not so much.

4+4+2=10

You certainly can put a new top on if you want following a new roof panel. Just avoid the temptation to fill the pitts in the existing sheet metal with bondo and slap new vinyl over it. When ever a see a car for sale with a fresh new top, that is my first assumption. Document what you do to fix it as proof of the quality of repair.

tc