InfinityOlds

I'm moving along on my project, but have run into a really rookie issue with the brakes. I've only dealt with disc brakes in the past, where the bleed valve was easily accessible. Is there some sort of special wrench I'm supposed to use for these on the drums? The brake bleeder wrenches I've bought won't fit due to the clearance (can't get over the valve), an open wrench seems to slide right off because of the angle, not a lot of room to work with for clamps. I've only checked the front so far, I suppose the rears may be easier.

Maybe crows foot? Flex head? Figured I'd ask before I kept buying and trying new options.

I've replaced the rusted and leaking brake line I had with a new one and I'm pretty sure all will be well once I've bled them back to front.

sysmg

Check this link. You need to find an L shaped brake bleeder wrench like the one second from top in this picture.

https://www.tien-i.com/detail/418-51...brake-tool-set

sysmg

Found one on Ebay. Perhaps you can find one cheaper there.

https://www.ebay.com/i/193708763484?...SABEgK_KPD_BwE

oldcutlass

I use Craftsman mini ignition wrenches. I have them in both 6 and 12 pt sets metric and saw.

mrolds69

Yes, what he ^^^ said, you need a wrench or kit like that. I don't typically recommend HF for tools, but some thing like this is ok to get the job done, and you get almost everything to do brakes on an old car.
https://www.harborfreight.com/7-piec...l-set-188.html
It is an old Olds, right? Not a newer one with metric hardware?

Sugar Bear

Bleeder screws break easily if the torque is applied on an angle. If you have room, use a T slide bar handle to keep the torque centered on the bleeder screw using and a 6 point deep socket. If the screw is particularly stubborn, use penetrating oil, a little heat and place an old cut off drill bit in the hollow part of the bleeder screw to reduce some of the angle torquing on the hollow screw.

If the bleeder screw snaps off it is easiest to replace the wheel cylinder.

Good luck!!!

InfinityOlds

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

I'll be honest, I think maybe I need to hit the area with a wire brush a little harder because I do have an offset wrench and there just doesn't seem to be enough clearance between the bleeder screw and the spindle to even get a wrench fully around the screw. Maybe I've just got that much gunk built up on there.

I'll try picking up the harbor freight set as well and hopefully the L-shaped wrench does the trick, maybe I'm just not thinking through the spatial relations and angles well enough in my head.

Thanks again!

RandyS

I know on my 66, the bleeders can be a beotch to get to easily. An end wrench 'should' work on a bleeder valve. If it just won't budge, (it may be rounded off due to previous attempts) it is a fairly simple matter to remove the brake cylinder. Then you can easily remove the bleeder valve.

InfinityOlds

I've got a '65 F85 so probably the exact same drums.

Here's what the front passenger bleeder looks like for me:

Guy Fillinger

Judging by the picture Randy makes the best suggestion. Remove the wheel cylinders, clean them up and remove the bleeders and replace them. You would be doing your self a favor. What I do with my Bleeders is I coat the threads with Di electric grease, it keeps them from rusting and you will not have a problem next time you change the brake fluid.

jaunty75

Your problem is that that bleeder screw is rusted beyond recognition. You should remove everything, clean it all up, certainly replace the bleeder screw, and probably replace the wheel cylinder as well. And if that's what one wheel looks like, I'm guessing the other three are similar.

I've owned several old cars with drum brakes all around, and I never had trouble getting a wrench on the bleeder screw or bleeding the brakes. Oldsmobile did not deliberately make it difficult to bleed drum brakes. There are no "tricks" involved, except for the trick of having brake components in good condition.

InfinityOlds

I figured it was worth posting the picture for a reason. I've never come across a car with as much gunk on some components as this one had on it, there was essentially a caked layer completely covering the bleed screw before I chipped away at it with a plastic chisel. I'll have to grab and throw up some before / after pictures when I have a spare minute. I figured I'd need new bleed screws but thought I might be able to get the old ones out and new ones installed without disassembling the wheel assembly.

I was planning on doing a front disc conversion at some point down the line, I may have to push that forward I suppose. Doesn't seem worth it to pull the whole wheel assembly apart to get the drums working, just to do it all over again to swap to discs.

The bleed screws on the rear drums actually look good, I took a look at those yesterday evening. I'll start with bleeding those so that I've at least got some pressure to the rear brakes in case I need to move it out of the garage before I can get to doing the disc conversion. I've got enough other issues to work through that I wasn't planning on driving it for a while anyways.

Thanks for the advice all!

InfinityOlds

After looking up a couple videos it actually doesn't look bad to do, far easier than I'd have expected. I'm just not familiar with these drum systems. Thanks again.

InfinityOlds

Guy Fillinger

In the before and after Picture you are showing the ball joint not the brake bleeder! If you are just showing how much crap is caked on your suspension that's something different. it looks like to me that when you do your conversion you should pull out everything, clean it all up and paint the parts other wise you will have nice new disc brakes mounted on stuff that looks like crap. Whats that saying Lipstick on a Pig is still a Pig. Just my opinion

Fun71

I see a very nice coating of rust preventive.

InfinityOlds

Yep just showing an example of how much was caked onto the suspension (and brake components) prior to the initial cleaning. I didn't get a shot specifically of the brake bleeder screws prior to cleaning, but the upper A-arms were pretty representative of how much crap was caked on there. You could barely see the tips of the bleeder screws at first. I've got the suspension components pretty well cleaned up, but I'll definitely be doing some more cleanup work and likely a full disassembly at that time, since I'm sure at least some of the ball joints & bushings are long overdue for replacement/repair. May as well put on some new sway bars while I'm at it then. Looks like the actual A-arms and springs are good for re-use, car is still in good alignment even with what was clearly 20+ years of neglect. Brake failure was what originally put the car out of driveable condition as the driver's side brake line that runs back to the rear rusted to the point of leaking.

InfinityOlds

Just extra dampening via a little extra weight on the unsprung components

So far honestly the rust isn't as bad as I anticipated considering the car was a Pennsylvania/Michigan car for most of its life. I've got some frame rust I need to cut out and weld in new sheet metal where the brake line was clamped to the frame (hence the leak) but it looks to be pretty easily repairable. The A-arms, crossmember, engine bay, shock mounting points/etc. all look good. I've got some body rust behind the rear wheel wells.

My last project (that I'm still finishing up) is a '77 Fiat Spider, unibody, and it had quite a bit more rust-rot. The last major task I have before selling it is cutting out what's left of the passenger floorboard and welding in the new one I bought, then replacing the carpeting and center console. It was rusted to scrap on every bolt I ever touched, so the pic I posted above didn't *honestly* look all that bad to me, considering. The screw looked at least a little bit better before I desperately tried a set of pliers on it a week ago. I was thinking maybe I could get it on the road as-is for the meantime, because with every "change" I'm running into mission creep. Like "huh, better do the discs now ($500), and while I'm at that better do the sway bars ($200), and whoops, bushings/ball joints/shocks, and maybe I should look into that whole "tall spindle" thing a bit more so I can correct the suspension geometry... and all the sudden it's jumped from a $5 bleed screw to $1K and 40 hours of work that aren't on the motor or interior that I'd rather be messing with.

Killian_Mörder

If you could get a set of pliers onto the bleeder screw, a set of vise-grips should also take. You want to be sure that the jaw's gripping surfaces haven't been dulled down, though. I used to heat the screws up with a torch, until they glowed. And then turn them with the grips. I'd try, despite a planned disc swap, in case the old fluid corrodes the cilinders, just before you get around to the disc conversion

JohnnyBs68S

I agree you should try new wheel cylinders, if the bleed screw is that rusted (being under the protective grease), it's probably ready to start leaking soon. HOWEVER, my experience w/ new wheel cylinders on the front brakes isn't all glorious either. Seems the fit of some replacement cylinders results in the bleed screw being right against the spindle, making it impossible to get a box-end wrench or socket around it. Fortunately, with new bleed screws that aren't seized to the cylinder, an open end wrench worked fine. Just be careful to not over-torque it when tightening it and round it off.

sysmg

I totally disagree. Bleeder screw is hollow and you will definitely crush it and not remove it.

sysmg

Typically I do the following steps to free up a stuck brake bleeder..

1 - clean up area with brake clean to get off any grit/grime. Spray it with Penetrating Oil and leave over night. Then spray again before proceeding.
2 - put a 1/4" drive deep socket and ratchet on the bleeder and try unscrewing by tapping the ratchet handle with a small wrench or screwdriver (to get a sharp but GENTLE snap) to break it free. YOU DON'T WANT TO BREAK IT OR TWIST IT UP.
3 - if that doesn't work, take a regular depth socket that will bottom out on the bleeder put it on the bleeder and use a drift and hammer to give it a reasonable rap directly in line with the bleeder, NOT AT ALL FROM THE SIDE OR AN ANGLE. This will possible loosen up the threads, you can do this several times.
4 - go back to step two. You can repeat step 2-3 a number of times. Each time you can hit a bit harder in step 3 (NOT IN STEP 2) If all this fails, you can try rapping harder in step 2. If that still doesn't work, use all the muscle you need, at worst you will brake the bleeder and you will have to buy a new wheel cylinder.
5 - If you break it free, don't unscrew it at all. Gently close it with the ratchet, then use the L shaped bleeder wrench, add a hose and bleed away. When you are done close it firmly with the bleeder wrench only.

You can use the L-shaped bleeder wrench without these steps on a new wheel cylinder or one that has recently been freed up.

Don't ask about the brake lines entering a rear wheel cylinder, if those are stuck it's a whole nasty procedure.

InfinityOlds

That's basically what I thought I'd come up against -- I can't get any of the box-end wrenches I have to go over it as the spindle seems to block it.

InfinityOlds

Hmm, it looked to me as if the spindle would prevent getting a socket over it but I'll give it a try! If that works geometrically that'll be by far the easiest option.

That's what I ended up having to do to replace the hub end of the fuel line I replaced -- cut the line and used a deep socket.

Guy Fillinger

This is just my opinion. The hardest part of doing something is getting started, I hem and haw about doing something and after I start I say this is not so bad. As bad as that bleeder looks in the picture I seriously doubt that you will get it out while on the car. I have removed the wheel cylinders on my "65" with out removing the brake shoes and other stuff. then you can work on it on a bench and save yourself a lot of cussing and swearing. when working on our cars you intend to do only one thing and when you star it snow ***** into a lot more work and money. Ain't life grand! what ever way you decide to go Good Luck.

InfinityOlds

Sincere thanks to all for the help. I think you may be right about needing to disassemble to have any prayer of re-using the drums at this point, the bleed screw is definitely pretty stripped and I've confirmed the spindle doesn't allow enough clearance to put a socket on, or any of the box-end wrenches I've tried, including an offset. There's a chance the L-wrench I ordered will provide enough clearance to go over the screw but I'm guessing it'll be too stripped to grip at this point. If I really wanted to get creative I'm sure I could weld something to the screw that can be attached to a socket extender, but that's more work than just doing it right and disassembling the drums.

I've been having issues getting it started with the old 2barrel on the engine (starter, spark good, have primed, no ignition), and I've got a dual-plane 7111 ready to install and was planning on going to a Sniper EFI with that, so I think I'm going to bleed the rears so I have some brake pressure, then do the port match and install of the 7111 & Sniper carb replacement (and all the associated changes with that). I was originally hopefully to get it driving with the stock intake and 2bbl, drums working without much effort, put some new tires on and drive it some before winterizing and doing the serious work over the winter. It's an old car (65 F85) that hasn't seen any TLC in a long time so it's not surprising that plan has changed, and I may as well do all the surgery at the start at this point, including whatever I'm going to do with the brakes and front spindles. Need to look into what options are available to improve the suspension geometry that work on the 64-67 A-bodies.

Thanks again, everyone.

Guy Fillinger

Moderator is there a reason that my post was edited? Are you saying we cannot use the word ***** as in Snow *****,Footballs, Baseballs,Beach *****, I could go on an on. I did not use the word Snow *********. It seems we can call someone a Crook and that's fine. But if we use a term that implies that a thing or project gets bigger, you get edited. WHAT GIVES?

oldcutlass

According to the post edit history, the only one that edited your post is you.

InfinityOlds

I'm seeing "ball joint" in the post above, so definitely can say ball.

Guy Fillinger

There is not a person here with an IQ above a PingPong Ball believes that I edited my own Post! oooooppppps I used Ball again I'm in trouble now.

Killian_Mörder

sysmg just used the word "screw"

If you set the vise-grip before you glow the bleeder, it won't collapse. If you're using electric terminal end crimpers, the screw is more likely to do so. Even the best bleeder screws aren't that hollow:

https://www.fastech-racing.com/goodr...-10x1.0mm.html

sysmg

I don't believe 60s and 70s cars have check valves in their bleeders. I've always had to close the bleeder before my assistant lifted his foot off the pedal.

Killian_Mörder

They certainly didn't have modern valves. But, that's not to say that you couldn't update an old cylinder with one of these modern valves. How could the caliper or cylinder be able to tell the difference?