brown7373

In an earlier thread, I asked about replacing the power steering gear on my72 Supreme. It was suggested I go with a Fast ration gear from Rock Auto. My existing gear is worn and sloppy.


I am considering the Lares 974 10:1 gear. Does anyone use that one, or recommend another? This is a street driven car, but a more modern feel in the steering would be a good thing, but is this too much?

RandyS

I went with the 12:1 in my 66 and I really like it. IMO 10:1 may feel a bit twitchy.

jozw30

+1 ^

brown7373

I thought 10:1 was a bit much, but didn't see any others that said what the ratio was. I'll have to look again. Does anyone know what part number the 12:1 for a 72 is?

ELY442

There is a thread about this by using a 93-98 Jeep Cherokee steering box. Do a search on it and you'll see very helpful tips.

garys 68&72

Agreed, the jeep box is a great upgrade for $50.

442craig

One of the best upgrades I did on my '68! Jeep Steering box

RandyS

Indeed the Jeep Box is a great upgrade. My luck did not hold up when I went that route; the one I got off of eBay leaked, and I ended up having to install new seals (which required complete disasembly - an interesting experience). Also had to get the Lee Adapters. After all was said and done, I wish I would have gotten the one from Rock Auto ............

70cutty

Here is a link for the thread about the jeep steering box conversion.

garys 68&72

Yeah, learned similar lesson from ebay buys.
Local yards sell everything from PS pumps to complete pullouts with guarantees. Most wont even ask you to bring a bad part back.
Btw, weren't you aware the jeep box was metric O ring? There are several ways to adapt the those from inverted flare to o ring, but the Lee adapter is easy.

70cutty

Is the one from Rock Auto direct replacement? No need for Lee Adapters, new rag joint, etc?

RandyS

Yes, I had them on hand for the swap. Not needed for the Rock Auto box....

brown7373

I would like to continue to use the stock hoses and pump. I take it that I will not be able to do that with the Jeep, because of Metric.


I did talk with Lares, and FWIW, they said the 974 10:1 would be "perfect" for a street driven Cutlass. It is difficult to tell the differences between the various options on Rock Auto. They list the 974 as a 10:1, but no other available gears list the ratio, so how do I compare? I don't want to end up with something that is a pain to drive on the street, but I would like an improvement, like in newer cars.

442craig

I bought a rebuilt unit from Pep Boys for $150 and had the old shaft swapped out with the stock one (so I can use a stock rag joint) and used the Lee kit. Probably about $200 invested. I do live close to Lee Power Steering.

Craig

RetroRanger

I have the lares 974 10:1 very happy w it. comes w new rag joint and uses stock hoses and pump too.

heres a thread on my experince w it, I have ~3k miles on it now....

ELY442

If you want to use your stock hoses, use these 2 fittings from Earl's Performance # 961955ERL & 961956ERL. You dont have to use Earls if you want. Just cross reference the numbers into another name brand.

jozw30

I didn't want all the conversion/used drama. I just orderd one from performanceonline.com. I think it was $270.00 with shipping.

jozw30

I think if you're expecting your 72 Cutlass to "feel" like a newer car simply by swapping the steering gear, you are in for a let down.

It'll take a lot more than that.

I've done a few of these quicker ratio boxes and haven't really noticed that much of a difference at any speed.

The "twitchy" comment above comes from the fact that the rest of your suspension is so mushy (compared to modern stuff), if the steering moves too much too quickly, you won't like that feeling for sure......

RetroRanger

Joe thanks for mentioning that, in my case my old box leaked and had a ton of play in it. my fr suspension has all new springs, shocks, BJs and bushngs as well as a 1.25" fr sway bar. the rear suspension has all new springs, shocks, bushings, boxed arms, the frame triangulation and a 1" sway bar.

the suspension doesn't feel mushy at all

dc2x4drvr

I bought my steering gear from Lee Mfg., guys that have say it feels like rack and pinion.

jozw30

It's all realtive. You can make a 72 suspension feel better than most new cars i suppose with all new modern parts. Just takes more than a quicker ratio gear to get a modern car "feel".

I've used the quicker ratio boxes when I've had to replace old leaky units as well. I've never bought one just to improve the turning feel.

cdrod

I had my gear rebuilt by Addco Steering in Houston, Tx (713-681.1446) and they converted it to a 12:1 ratio as part of the rebuild. I think it cost me $279 to rebuild my stock gear and pump.

MDchanic

I dunno - I had already changed a few control arm bushings, installed station wagon sway bars, and Bilstein shocks, but when I installed the Jeep GC steering box, my 5,000 lb '73 Delta felt like a different car.

- Eric

jozw30

No problem, if it made a big difference for you, that's great!

brown7373

Maybe I should have mentioned that my gear has a lot of play in it and my hoses are leaking. I recently switched from power drums to power disks and rebuilt everything front to back...bushings, bearings, ball joints tie rod ends, springs and front & rear sway bars, so mine isn't loose there either. A number of years back I replaced the steering gear in my 70 Bonneville convertible with a quicker one and it was markedly improved in steering. My front end parts were also good.


I just want to make sure I don't move away from a street driven car and get too close to a race car. I am not trying to make this car handle like a 2015.

steverw

I bought a Lars 10 : 1. I havent had the opportunity to test it yet, but looking forward to it I talked to a guy at Lars, he said they use IROC internals for the 10:1.

Steve

RetroRanger

I dont think your in any danger of that LOL...my other car is a newer mustang gt and it will leave the olds in the dust in corners. while the FR box is a marked improvement in feel, half of the improvement comes from getting rid of the slop.

my high pressure hose was leaking too i replaced it when i did the swap.

i think no matter what option you choose for the FR box you will be happy you did the swap, ive yet to hear 1 person anywhere say I wish i had my old slow sloppy gear back in there

brown7373

No, I definitely need to replace my old sloppy box and the hoses. A like new original box would still represent a great improvement over what I have now, but I like the idea of a little faster. What is difficult is how to compare the stock ratio that I have compared to various others available, and is the 10:1 a little faster or a LOT faster. I am not looking to go head to head with anyone through the corners. I just want a nice driving and handling old car.


Some more modern improvement can really improve our cars, like radial tires. When I first bought my 70 Bonneville that I have owned for 36 years, it had bias belted tires. Either were available. Every 12,000 miles, I would replace the bias tires. I was totally amazed at how much better the car was all around when I bought it's first set of radials. If I can show similar improvement with whatever gear I buy, without going too far, I would be satisfied.


Your positive comments on the 974 for a car with similar use is tempting me to pull the trigger. Thanks

Magna86

Simplest is to jsut order the Lares box and some new hoses. Just have to double check if the pump will need changed or upgraded for the new box. I went with the GCJ box on the 71 since my hoses were good and I got a nice box for $50. Between that and the suspension rebuild the car drives like new even with old hard tires. I have another GCJ box waiting for the 66.

brown7373

After all the discussion, the Jeep box sound pretty good.


Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I could buy a rebuilt Jeep box (to ensure it is not worn), use my existing or new Cutlass hoses, use the Lee seat inserts or Earls O-rings, and reuse my original pitman arm. And, a rag joint from a 77-82 Chevy PU.


And then it is just a bolt on?

Magna86

Yes you are correct. Just have to makesure you have the right rag joint. I ordered the wrong one initially. Lare 212 or 211 is the correct one.

MDchanic

The problem is that when you buy rebuilt steering boxes, you can't be sure what's inside - sometimes they are not very particular about what parts tey use, so long as they work.

If you get a factory box, you know it was built to factory specs.

- Eric

cdrod

This is why I prefer to rebuild the gear box that came on the car. At least you know where it came from and it can be modified to a quicker ratio when it's rebuilt.

Rodney

brown7373

So a Jeep box that is 12.7:1 might be rebuilt at 14 or 16:1? Hmmmm, that is definitely not what I want. I guess I'm just a little afraid of pulling a 17-25 year old box and expecting it to work well. Maybe going directly to the rebuilder is a better option.

garys 68&72

My $0.02, I think you're worrying too much about used steering boxes. First off, they're pretty reliable. I would have more confidence in a used genuine jeep box vs a Chinese made replacement from autozone.
Get on car-part.com find one locally for $50. Pretty much everyone around here warrantees theirs, if it leaks, they just give you another.
My understanding is the inverted flair adapters work fine, but there are a few other options for hoses.
Then get a Dorman 31011 rag joint, yours is probably in bad shape anyway.

cdrod

Brown:
Just to clarify my previous post. I had my '72 gear box rebuilt and the shop converted it from a 16:1 variable ratio to a 12:1 fixed ratio. I did this on a '71 Cutlass I built years ago and the difference was amazing. With the old gear the car seemed sloppy and loose at the center (going straight) but it gradually tightened up the farther I turned the wheel. Some of the sloppiness was due to worn out parts, but a lot of it was inherent in the design of the variable ratio gear box which I was told was closer to 20:1 in the middle range and gradually increased to 16:1 at the extremes. With the fixed 12:1 gear my car was much more responsive (without the 20:1 ratio in the middle) without being "twitchy" and the steering was more predictable as well because the fixed ratio was consistent throughout the full travel of the gear box. I hope this helps.

Rodney

MDchanic

It's not just the ratio.

if they use a smaller torsion bar, the boost will kick in sooner and the steering will have less "feel."

- Eric

brown7373

Is there a difference between a Cherokee and Grand Cherokee, as far as the steering box goes?

MDchanic

Completely different. The Cherokee box is a long-nose box, like a Bronco.

- Eric

ELY442

Lares 212 or 211? I read some threads here and they use Lares 200 or 202. Which one to use?