dmcianfa

Boy am I excited to find this forum because I'm going to need a ton of help in the coming year(s).

Hello all and I look forward to sharing info about olds of the past. Well, I'll get right to it and explain why I'm here. My father passed away recently and I was fortunate enough to inherit his '64 Olds Cutlass F-85 two door. Not sure if it's a 442. Anyway, I rebuilt the 400 when I was younger, I'm 30 now, and rebuilt the entire motor completely after it threw a couple crank journals by the previous owner to my father. In any case, the motor has been sitting for some 12 years on a stand finished, while my father was supposed to refurbish the exterior and interior of the car. Things got crazy for him and subsequently he didn't do much except remove most of the interior. Now I will be the lucky one to do the rest of the dismantle and restoration. However, I know there will be some pride and sentiment involved in this car if and when I finish it. In any case ,I also own a '69 SS Camaro and have experience with muscle cars to some degree, so hopefully it helps me out here. My questions basically are:

1. Where can I get a repair manual for this car showing details of every nook and cranny?
2. Where can I retrieve a catalog for cutlasses that have reproduction OEM parts to buy? I used Classic Industries for my camaro and was wondering if there is a similar entity for Cutlasses of the past or if there is a NOS dealer out there.
3. Where can I find on the car if it was and is a true 442? Please explain in detail on the car and what the numbers will mean if one could.
4. How do I know if the numbers for the motor match? Not sure they will as I'm not certain this 400 came from this car, but I would like to know beforehand.
5. What are the admins handles here? I can't find Dennis Urban's username in the member list for instance and from a previous thread someone mentioned he has a '64 and is very knowledgable about these things.

I'm going to need a ton of help being that I've never "completely" restored a vehicle before, so I look forward to picking some brains about the project and just having some fun with fellow classic car buffs. I'm a fairly good mechanic and understand mechanical systems, being I'm an engineer, so there's no issues there I feel, but as far as detail and what not I may have to hire out (body, paint, reupholstery, ect...). Frame is in good shape and as far as I know not too much deterioration all around with it being under a tarp for years, but I've got my work cut out that's for sure. I live in Wisconsin, so the snow wreaks havoc on vehicles and I'm sure I'll find plenty of suprises along the way. I can't wait to do this and get it on the road with a picture of my dad underneath the visor, smiling down at me. May have to sell the camaro to fund the project, but I feel even if this car isn't a true 442 it is a bit more rare, no? Plus, I love the look of early to mid sixties cars, such as the big sleeper tail section.

Thanks in advance for any info y'all may have as I appreciate any advice from folks that know their way around olds cars and especially cutlasses. Love the internet cause I probably wouldn't take on something like this without a forum such as this one. It makes life that much easier.

Dom

70 cutlass s

Hi welcome to the site. 65 was the first year for the 400 so if the car is a 64 then the engine didn't come with that car.

You will need a service manual and fisher body manual. Check ebay first.

Places to buy parts. https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ent-parts.html

Oldsguy

Welcome to CO. Not familiar with Dennis Urban but don't know all the member's names.

1.check ebay

2.Fusick, Kanter, Year One are just three I know of.

3.Not sure if you can from the vin and engine id. Someone with more experience can chime in on that.

4.Omicron is the other admin, his name is Paul.

dmcianfa

I'm not even certain it's a 64, that is just my guess. I can't remember if my dad said 64 or 65. I have to find the title yet. Any clues that differentiate a 64 from a 65? I suppose the VIN will relay this, but what part of the VIN?

stlbluesbrother

Find the VIN and enter in this site for decoding http://www.v8cars.hu/oldsvin/decode.php

As mentioned by the others, a chassis service manual is a must. I just checked eBay for a 1964 manual but only found the "soft" version - compact disc http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OLDSM...item35ab8056e1

In regard to #4, I can only say with confidence that for my car, 1970, you can determine if the engine is numbers matching by finding the code stamped near front of the engine on the driver's side. By "front" I mean towards the water pump. Compare the last few digits (don't recall how many) to the VIN. Others can chime in if mid-60's engine id's are different.

stan 65 cutlass

do you have any pics? the vin is on the drivers door pillar below the windsheild. also a data plate on the firewall. 64's say oldsmobile on the rear panel, 65's have oldsmobile on the trunk lid

wmachine

Welcome!
If you post a legible pic of the firewall data plate, we could tell you quite a bit about it.
Good place to start.

dmcianfa

I don't have any pics on me now being the car itself is still at my fathers about 150 miles away. However, I thought I remember the trunk lid having an "oldsmobile" lettering on it. hmmm. I'm going up there this weekend, so I'll have to take some pics and post them. Say, when you say the driver door pillar, do you mean where the hinges for the door sit or do you mean where the windshield meets the dash?

wmachine

If you send a pic of the firewall tag, you won't need the VIN tag info.

bil

If you have a picture of the car,it is fairly easy to tell the 64s and 65s apart.post almost any picture. ---bil

dmcianfa

How do I know if it's a 4-4-2 as well? I don't recall seeing the emblems on it. I know it has to be 4 barrel, 4 on the floor, and dual exhaust, but aside from that? I'm sure this car may have lost some decaling due to deer collisions over time, so I would like to be sure it is a 442 or not.

bil

Depends on if it is a 64 or 65.^4 will have small 442 emblems on the front fenders,for starters.65 will have the fake air inlets on the rear quarters,just behind the doors.Dash emblems are less likely to suffer deer damage,check there also.If you find any emblems,then you can dig deeper.First year and emblems,then we can go from there.No use crawling under and around the car if it can be found out by the major details first. And congrats on getting your fathers car.My son is looking forward to getting mine when I am done with it. But I plan on taking it with me! ---bil

Lady72nRob71

Welcome!

Do post some pics when you get them - things will really come together then.
Service manuals can be had at the places to get parts already mentioned.
A great Camaro parts source is Firewheel Classics - just a mile from my house. Wonderful people - they order Olds parts for me so I do not have to pay shipping!

Best of luck and we'll see you around the forum!
Be sure to use the "search" function here - it will be your best friend when looking for certain topics!

dmcianfa

I wish there was a parts place like that around me, but maybe I just need to look harder. I'll take some pics this week, but I must warn you they won't be pretty!!! LOL. Lot's of work needs to be done on it. In any case, can anyone say how rare of a car the F-85's are? More rare in a 442 version? More of a collectible than camaros, firebirds, mustangs, etc.... It seems everyone and their brother has one version or another of those. I would like to be different at a car show or classic ride I suppose. Can anyone attest to the rareness?

stan 65 cutlass

in 64 442 was 4 barrel 4 speed 2 exhaust, in 65 it was 400 4 barrel 2 exhaust

dmcianfa

Does this mean that in 1965 you could still technically own a 442 without having a manual 4 speed transmission?

joe_padavano

A 1964 Cutlass/442 looks like this:



A 1965 looks like this:



There is no "numbers matching" VIN derivative stamping on the engine. That was not used until the 1968 model year. The only way to tell if you have the original engine is if you have the Protect-O-Plate that was provided for warranty work. The POP will list the engine unit number stamping and tie it to the vehicle VIN. Note that the engine unit number was only stamped on one head, so all that "proves" is that the particular head is "numbers matching".

dmcianfa

Looks more like the '65 in the picture if my memory serves me correctly. Do you know where the POP is? I can find the engine stamp easily enough with the motor and heads being out of the car and sitting on a stand.

stlbluesbrother

The Protect-O-Plate is a plastic card usually included with the owners manual "wallet". It's not attached to the car. Go to images.google.com to find examples.

Edit: go to this link to see an example of one from 1971 https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...g-id-olds.html. The picture is about half way down.

Also, not sure if the protect-o-plate's were plastic in the mid 60's. They might have been metal?

stan 65 cutlass

yes in 65 and after you could get get a 442 with an auto trans

wmachine

In '64-'68, the P-O-P was a metal tag attached to the last page of the warrenty booklet that was originally put in the glove box.

stan 65 cutlass

if the 400 you have is original that would make it a 442, it would be a 330 otherwise

dmcianfa

All great info fellas. I can't wait to learn more about this car. I have some intricate knowledge about the motor, but that's about it. I also know the gentlemen that sold it to my father way back when, so I can always go to him for the POP cause I doubt it's in the glove box with the car. Now that I've been talking and seeing pictures more it is most likely it's a '65 442 sport coupe due to the fact that it doesn't have posts. I wish it was a manual 4 speed to grind through some gears, but I suppose I can put a M-20 in it if I really wanted to and add a pedal. Or I could keep the hydra-matic, which I think is in it, and spring for a stall convertor. Hmmm. Last I know everything in terms of powertrain, brakes, and electrical was in working order, but you never know with time.

joe_padavano

Actually, the hardtop (no posts) was called the Holiday Coupe by Olds. The post cars were called either Sport Coupe or Club Coupe.

dmcianfa

So, it's probably a Holiday Coupe being that it is a metal hard top. Hmmm, didn't know that either. cool.

bil

It is the posts that make the differance.If you roll down the front window and open the door,if there is nothing there,it is a hardtop,If there is a top and sides there,it is a post coupe.Hardtop and convertible have the same doors.All are nice! ---bil

dmcianfa

This car is blue, but not sure what kind of blue. I'm kinda wondering if I keep it the same color what it is adn what to tell the guy who does my painting. I would also like to hear what other colors they offered in this era for Olds cutlasses. I wouldn't mind a nice blue or green pearl, but would entertain the thought of keeping it as original as possible too. Hmmm, so many decisions to make down the road.

bil

The one with the RR station in back is a post car,the other is a hardtop.Both 65s ---bil

rocketraider

If it's an original automatic it will be a 2-speed Jetaway, which is not the same as a PowerGlide. Jetaway has electric downshift and a few other differences from PowerGlide. Some 1966 442 got TurboHydraMatic but not many. It was still fairly uncommon even by 1967.

You're already learning that different Divisions used different nomenclature for different bodystyles. Chev called their hardtops "Sport Coupe" or "Sport Sedan". In B-O-P world, Sport Coupes are post cars. Olds hardtops are Holidays, though they did call a few early 60s four-windowed four-door hardtops "Holiday Sport Sedan".

Confusing, yes?

dmcianfa

It's definetely a hard top then. But, I don't understand how the window when rolled down clears the back portion (rear seat)area. is there still a seperate window for the rear portion or something just no post between the two. Maybe there is no post, but there is a weather strip portion that comes up with the rear window. I think that is what my camaro does. I can't wait to look at this car this weekend to view all this stuff.

bil

Hardtop has no post,just a weatherstrip on the back window. ---bil

dmcianfa

I word on what color schemes they offered in 64 and/or 65?

Bluehaze43

Welcome to CO fellow Wisconsinite Dom. This is a great site, and has even better people from what I have seen in the short time I've been around.

Congrats on getting a great car, and my condolences on the passing of your father.

What part of the state are you from?

Best of luck to you in your restoration.

dmcianfa

Close to Appleton about 30 minutes east of it. NOt sure where Big Bend is?

bil

65 color chart,buy it now 5.99,e-bay
http://compare.ebay.com/1965-oldsmob...e/330442944716
Somewhere here I have one,but I am not sure how it would come through as far as exact color goes. I do know the red is the same formular for chevy since at least 1937,though! ---bil

bil

There is also a chart that tells what color interior can go with what color exterior,and also what color vinyl top or convertible top.You couldn't just order anything,it had to look good! After,it IS an Oldsmobile! ---bil

Bluevista

They had "recommended" colors but I think you could order any color combination you wanted, and I've seen some weirdos.

You can never mistake your car for another one in a parking lot when it's green with a red interior.

dmcianfa

Ok. Got a chance to go to my dad's house this past weekend and get some info as well as some pictures. Wife has the camera right now, so pictures will come later, so here we go. This is the cowl tag info as it reads. Again, I have a photo of it too, but I'll just type it out. Looks like it's actually a '64. Any indication from the cowl tag it was the 442 or pursuit model? Deciphering this is my goal here.

stan 65 cutlass

sorry dont know 64 codes,someone will,wheres them pics?

TK-65

2G is floor auto with console, so its not a 64 442.