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Sad because my friend Bryan was taken from us last weekend when his Vette was T-Boned by a truck. His father told me yesterday that he had put me in his will for his '69 Cutlass, Wow! It has been garaged and not driven for at least four years since his wife passed away. Not even sure if he started it regularly. Don't know what model, but that it's probably not a 442, weren't they all 4 speed sticks? Don't think it was a Supreme either. Was there a base model and then the Cutlass S also? It's a 2 door red hardtop with 350 Rocket, he said, automatic trans and bench seat. Has Ram Air package, but he added that, it wasn't stock. I guess I'll know soon, when it's transferred and I have the VIN. Might even have access prior to that to see, not going to push his mournful family. I'm excited of course, I'm quite sure he left it to me because he knows I will maintain, appreciate and most of all, actually drive it. He was one of those people that only pulled it out every year or so for a drive, I bugged him many times to dust it off and let it out of the stable to play. My first chores will likely be new battery, drain fuel, and check tires. What fuel will work? Can these old motors run unleaded, need lead additives, can they use 87, need premium maybe? Thanks for reading, please advise me on fuel type. Randy
Welcome and sorry about your friend. In 1969 the Supreme used the same body style as the Cutlass S and F85. No, 442s didn't all come with four speeds, that was in the 1964 model year only. The did all come with 400 motors in 1969 however. The 2dr hardtop could have been either a Cutlass S or Cutlass Supreme Holiday Coupe. The VIN will tell you exactly what it is.
Sorry for your loss. What a terrible way to get a nice car.
As for gas, 87 will probably be inadequate even if the 350 is a 9.0 compression 2 bbl (which might be able to get by on 89 or 91) and if it's a 10.25:1 4 bbl, you're definitely looking for the best premium you can find, possibly with an octane booster. I always like a bit of "headroom" when it comes to octane, but essentially you can use anything that doesn't induce pre-ignition (spark knock). So maybe start off high (93) and if it tolerates that well, try moving down (maybe 91). Ethanol-free is preferable in any case if it's available in your area. Last I looked, the jury was still out on lead and lead additives. Consensus now seems to be that these cars will be okay using straight unleaded under all but the most punishing sustained high RPM circumstances.
When you get the car (and when you've had a little time to recover from the grief and shock) we'd love to see some pictures.
Thanks for the info guys. His brother sent me the VIN, decoder says it's a Cutlass S. I'll know more after the lawyers sort out the estate and turn it over. And then I'll be back with some pictures and more questions I'm sure. Good thing I've been my own mechanic forever (bought my first, a '67 Tempest, in '74), have experience with everything from electrical (my trade) to total engine rebuilds.
Condolences for the loss of your friend. He left that car to you knowing it will be in good hands. All of your maintenance practices from your old Pontiac will carry right over. Once you take possession of the vehicle you can evaluate its condition and repair as/if needed. '69 will always be my favorite year for Oldsmobiles version of the GM A-body.
I would say welcome to the party, but I must give my condolences for the loss of a friend. This site, like so named, is the best site for those years Olds. Any questions can be answered.
So, the car has been towed to my home. Wouldn't start, just "clicked" and new battery/beating on starter didn't work. Had trouble pulling it out of my friends garage, 2 wheels/brakes locked up pretty badly, one front and one rear. Had to "******" it foot by foot out of his tight garage, then chainfall onto a trailer. Removed starter and bench tested, very slow and weak, new starter installed and she fired up quick. No smoke, no leaks, but also no idle or accel pump squirt, carb kit for the Holley 650 ordered and on the way, along with a service manual. Got it idling at about 1200 today and drove up and down my driveway to try to free up the brakes so the hubs will come off easier. (and maybe a couple little burnouts, ha). Working on brakes this morning, sweaty fight. Black interior is near perfect, turns out it wasn't a bench seat as I thought I remembered. Has a slight mildew/mold issue, light white throughout and stinky, so seats and carpet will be coming out for deep cleaning. Overall, great potential, looking forward to getting her sorted out and on the road again.
It's a beautiful car. But it sure will keep grease under your fingernails until you get things sorted out.
There are many products claiming to rid cars of foul smells. I had great success with Meguiar's Whole Car Air Re-Fresher. It's like a bug bomb, set it off inside a tight car with the engine running and the a/c/vent system fan on for the prescribed timeframe. Loosen and cattywampus the rear seat so the bomb can reach the underside of the rear cushions and trunk area.
So, the car has been towed to my home. Wouldn't start, just "clicked" and new battery/beating on starter didn't work. Had trouble pulling it out of my friends garage, 2 wheels/brakes locked up pretty badly, one front and one rear. Had to "******" it foot by foot out of his tight garage, then chainfall onto a trailer. Removed starter and bench tested, very slow and weak, new starter installed and she fired up quick. No smoke, no leaks, but also no idle or accel pump squirt, carb kit for the Holley 650 ordered and on the way, along with a service manual. Got it idling at about 1200 today and drove up and down my driveway to try to free up the brakes so the hubs will come off easier. (and maybe a couple little burnouts, ha). Working on brakes this morning, sweaty fight. Black interior is near perfect, turns out it wasn't a bench seat as I thought I remembered. Has a slight mildew/mold issue, light white throughout and stinky, so seats and carpet will be coming out for deep cleaning. Overall, great potential, looking forward to getting her sorted out and on the road again.
As others have said, sorry to hear about your loss however your friend’s memory will live on with you as the new caretaker of his beautiful Cutlass.
I run Shell vPower 93 octane with an ethanol fighting product called Ethanol Defense by Bell Products (it’s on Amazon) and add a lead additive too each fill-up just to be safe since these 60s cars didn’t have hardened valve seats. A friend of mine also runs a couple gallons of racing fuel at each fill up— haven’t found the need for that in my 394 Skyrocket with the 10.0:1 compression.
I’ve also started using PennGrade1 motor oil with high zinc and phosphorus content to protect the softer flat tappet engines. Their engineers are very helpful and recommended a weight/viscosity based on where I live and how much I drive the car. The former owner of my car ran full synthetic and the car had quite a few drips here and there when I got it. Interesting to note since I changed to PennGrade1 the drips have nearly disappeared.
All the best as you wake up the car.
Last edited by GMKarGuy; July 24th, 2022 at 04:39 AM.
Looks to be a great legacy bestowed upon you - you'll get plenty of help on this site to make it roadworthy again.
I personally would just replace the carpet set instead of trying to clean/deodorize the old one - you can get a loop-fabric style original or splurge a bit more for an optional deep-pile set patterned after the luxury-level vehicles of the day. I installed one of those in my ragtop and it's a great upgrade from the loop style.
with carpets out, also a good time to possibly replace the intermediate wiring harness that runs along the driver side floor - 50 yo wiring can be a wild card even if it looks good on the outside - factory repro harnesses are readily available thru the usual part sources or directly from their manufacturers - such as M&H Electric and American Autowire.]
You can also lay down new under-padding or noise insulation like Dynomat if you want to reduce residual interior heat coming up from the exhaust. - just some easy projects for thought while the access is there.
Last edited by 70sgeek; July 23rd, 2022 at 08:47 PM.
I personally would just replace the carpet set instead of trying to clean/deodorize the old one - you can get a loop-fabric style original or splurge a bit more for an optional deep-pile set patterned after the luxury-level vehicles of the day..
If the carpet is original and otherwise in good shape I would try to save it. Every re-pop carpet set I've used over the years has gone fuzzy after just a couple of years of gentle use.
As Bang mentioned the replacement carpets are sh*t. I even mentioned it to Legendary when I bought my 2nd carpet and he agreed they get fuzzy and aren't as good as OEM so if you can clean up original carpet that's what I would do.
I guess since this thread got resurrected from last July, I'll toss in an update. Pulled the carpets out and power washed, then reinstalled with new padding. Not perfect, but pretty good, still would like new ones someday, hopefully someone will post where to get some that won't get fuzzy.
Got brakes replaced, emptied the 5 year old? gas (wouldn't siphon well, so dropped the tank to get it all). Pulled seats and carpets for deep clean (mouse nest under rear seat), new starter, rebuilt carb, fuel pump crapped out on me, bunch of other little stuff.
Got her running pretty well, but had to up the idle to 11-1200 or would stall when put in gear. After playing around with a bunch of stuff, I read that on these older cars it works best sometimes to set timing by "ear". Especially when cammed, which Brian obviously did , I found a "Daytona Performance Cam" box in his garage with the old stock cam in it. Nothing given for lift or duration on the box and I can't find anything on this company, anybody ever hear of them? Have no idea when he installed it, he had the car for about 25 years (and put 1500 miles on it in all that time, what!) .Found the timing to be set to 8 degrees base, which matched specs. So, hooked up a vaccum gauge and advanced timing until highest vac, then backed off until vac dropped 1 pound (20-19). Rev'd it some, sounded much better. Left the driveway for a test drive and it chirped the tires shifting to 2nd! Went a block or two, turned around, hit it a little harder and it barked the tires loudly when shifting, wow. Checked timing by light, now right about 12 degrees, running strong with no detonation on 93 octane. Also, idling slowly and correctly now with no stalling shifting into gear.
Started driving it some, but after 10-15 miles would stall out and be a real bitch to restart, would take a couple minutes of intermittent cranking some times. This happened maybe 5 or 6 times over a month of occasional drives. Then, one night, it stalled at 2-3 consecutive lights. The last time it stalled , I was cranking it and pumping the gas pedal. When it fired it sounded like a 12 gauge went off and blew both mufflers apart at the seams. Guy behind me said flames blew out the back! Got it home (loudly), looked under, the oval mufflers were now round, ha. Ordered some new Walker Dynomax 14" Turbos, a little shorter than the blown ones, but about the same tone. Pondered why it might have happened, started looking at the Pertronix electronic ignition and matching high output coil that was installed. After research, found that my buddy had never put 12 volts solid to it, was still running off the resistive wire at about 6-7 volts. Rewired for 12 volts, test drove, started stalling again at 10-12 miles as it had been. Pulled the Pertronix and installed AC Delco coil and points, problem gone, at least a few hundred miles now with no issues. Got a feeling that the Petronix may have been damaged by running at low voltage and could have been slightly intermittent at times, causing the stalling. So, when I was pumping the gas and cranking, maybe just loaded the pipes with gas and when the spark came back, boom! went the mufflers?
Still running mildly rich, exhaust is stinky/fumey, but no black smoke when I get on it, and plugs are burning awesome. Have fiddled with idle mixture without change, maybe need to check float level? Or, maybe the carb sat so long it clogged up some small internal passages? It's a Holley 650 Spreadbore, don't really want to cough up 7-800 for a new one. Any ideas on what else I might check?
Been driving less now that it's cold out, but every time I do, I talk with my invisible shotgun rider Brian. It's been about 9 months now, so the pain of losing him has subsided quite a bit. His daughter told me a couple months after his passing that someone told her grief is like the ocean, sometimes rogue waves can crash without any warning. I agree, they crashed into me for several months, tears would start flowing without any warning. Have stayed dry lately, and smiling now with fond memories when driving.
What a great post. Thanks, Randy. Sounds like you're well on the way to getting everything sorted. As for a carb for your application, I've always been happy with the Q-jets that came on these cars originally
I guess since this thread got resurrected from last July, I'll toss in an update. Pulled the carpets out and power washed, then reinstalled with new padding. Not perfect, but pretty good, still would like new ones someday, hopefully someone will post where to get some that won't get fuzzy.
Got brakes replaced, emptied the 5 year old? gas (wouldn't siphon well, so dropped the tank to get it all). Pulled seats and carpets for deep clean (mouse nest under rear seat), new starter, rebuilt carb, fuel pump crapped out on me, bunch of other little stuff.
Got her running pretty well, but had to up the idle to 11-1200 or would stall when put in gear. After playing around with a bunch of stuff, I read that on these older cars it works best sometimes to set timing by "ear". Especially when cammed, which Brian obviously did , I found a "Daytona Performance Cam" box in his garage with the old stock cam in it. Nothing given for lift or duration on the box and I can't find anything on this company, anybody ever hear of them? Have no idea when he installed it, he had the car for about 25 years (and put 1500 miles on it in all that time, what!) .Found the timing to be set to 8 degrees base, which matched specs. So, hooked up a vaccum gauge and advanced timing until highest vac, then backed off until vac dropped 1 pound (20-19). Rev'd it some, sounded much better. Left the driveway for a test drive and it chirped the tires shifting to 2nd! Went a block or two, turned around, hit it a little harder and it barked the tires loudly when shifting, wow. Checked timing by light, now right about 12 degrees, running strong with no detonation on 93 octane. Also, idling slowly and correctly now with no stalling shifting into gear.
Started driving it some, but after 10-15 miles would stall out and be a real bitch to restart, would take a couple minutes of intermittent cranking some times. This happened maybe 5 or 6 times over a month of occasional drives. Then, one night, it stalled at 2-3 consecutive lights. The last time it stalled , I was cranking it and pumping the gas pedal. When it fired it sounded like a 12 gauge went off and blew both mufflers apart at the seams. Guy behind me said flames blew out the back! Got it home (loudly), looked under, the oval mufflers were now round, ha. Ordered some new Walker Dynomax 14" Turbos, a little shorter than the blown ones, but about the same tone. Pondered why it might have happened, started looking at the Pertronix electronic ignition and matching high output coil that was installed. After research, found that my buddy had never put 12 volts solid to it, was still running off the resistive wire at about 6-7 volts. Rewired for 12 volts, test drove, started stalling again at 10-12 miles as it had been. Pulled the Pertronix and installed AC Delco coil and points, problem gone, at least a few hundred miles now with no issues. Got a feeling that the Petronix may have been damaged by running at low voltage and could have been slightly intermittent at times, causing the stalling. So, when I was pumping the gas and cranking, maybe just loaded the pipes with gas and when the spark came back, boom! went the mufflers?
Still running mildly rich, exhaust is stinky/fumey, but no black smoke when I get on it, and plugs are burning awesome. Have fiddled with idle mixture without change, maybe need to check float level? Or, maybe the carb sat so long it clogged up some small internal passages? It's a Holley 650 Spreadbore, don't really want to cough up 7-800 for a new one. Any ideas on what else I might check?
Been driving less now that it's cold out, but every time I do, I talk with my invisible shotgun rider Brian. It's been about 9 months now, so the pain of losing him has subsided quite a bit. His daughter told me a couple months after his passing that someone told her grief is like the ocean, sometimes rogue waves can crash without any warning. I agree, they crashed into me for several months, tears would start flowing without any warning. Have stayed dry lately, and smiling now with fond memories when driving.
Randy Curley
Wonderful post. Your friend’s memory lives on with every turn of the ignition key.
Glad to hear the car is doing well. About your buddy... I agree grief is like that- it can come back and slap you at any time... I'm sorry you lost your good pal.
A defective power valve on the carburetor may be the cause of the rich fuel mixture. As started in a previous post the Quadrajet carburetor might be a better choice.
June 21st, 2022, 09:00 AM
