Nails

I have a 67 Olds 330.Is it worth the money to switch over to a electronic ignition. I was told MSD was the way to go. Will I see much difference in performance?

radioburningchrome

If you use the car for basic use or weekend use and are not a lead-foot, I would say no.

Points are very easy to maintain and still cheap.

Electronics ignition is set-it-and-forget-it!

The plus to EI is slightly more power and your plugs will not foul as fast.

rcorrigan5

I used a Pertronix set-up in my '68 4-4-2. Easy to install, no points to worry about, runs like a charm with its original coil, hard to tell there's been any changes.

Randy C.

redoldsman

X2 on that. It is relatively cheap and in my opinion, one of the best changes you can make.

chequenman

x's 3

MDchanic

... BUT, if your current points system is working fine now, that's a chunk of change you can put off spending until later, when you know more and can make a better decision. The odds are that if this is a stock motor that you run in any kind of a normal manner, you won't notice any difference between an electronic unit and a properly set up points unit.

I'd make sure your plugs, wires, cap, rotor, points, and condenser are in good shape and your mechanical and vacuum advance units are working right, then contemplate a changeover when you're comfortable with what you've already got.

The Pertronix unit and factory HEI unit are both good, though, and you can't go wrong with the Pertronix (though you can get a good HEI cheaper in a junkyard). I would stay away from the speed shop stuff for a stock engine, because you probably won't notice any improvement over the "plain jane" stuff in spite of the large extra cost.

- Eric

Nails

Thanks for the advice. I've only had the car since last summer and from what I can tell its basically a stock motor. The car runs great but it doesn't seem to have any *****. I thought if I could make some small changes I would get better performance. I was trying to find headers but I'm not having much luck.

MDchanic

I'd do the usual check of all systems - compression, cam timing and lift, ignition timing, ignition components, carb rebuild / adjustment. It'd be nice to have a SUN machine to hook it up to to confirm that the ignition system is working right, but nobody has those anymore.

- Eric

oldcutlass

Mine is a 330/4v hi compression stock with the exception of an edelbrock carb/ spacer. I run points with no issues! I set my dwell @30 with timing set @10-13 deg btdc. I have my vacuum advance connected to ported. I run midgrade fuel with no pinging.

With the trans and gear ratio you're right, performance is not that great!! An MSD unit is not going to correct that on its own. I too am looking into a better powertrain for my 67.

Bayou Olds

I used a Summit HEI and have had no problems so far. It was a maintenance thing for me.

droptopron

I went with a Crane XR1 for maintenance free but for performance you won't see any difference if your points are set correctly & properly maintained IMO.

joe_padavano

What he said. Unless you plan to convert to an HEI-style system with higher voltage at the plugs, simply installing a points-replacement system provides no benefit over properly maintained points. Now, a higher voltage coil will help fire marginal mixtures, but again, if the car is maintained and adjusted properly, that should not be needed.

Of course, if you want the set it and forget it convenience of an electronic system, or if you want the ability to digitally change the advance curve from the driver's seat, well those are different questions.

455man

I noticed some increased throttle response when I switched to HEI. Not a big difference in power. The headers would probably be more bang for your buck.

tfi racing

Unless you will be running consistent rpm above 6k(not likely)the MSD will do nothing to help performance.I recommend switching to a Pertronix if you want to keep the original look,or a later HEI if looks aren't important.After getting stranded twice by poor quality and defective point sets(good ones are getting hard to find),I switched to electronic and haven't been stuck yet.

Joffroi

This is new to me but very interesting. I have a 68 with 350 4bbl, 2 sp auto transmission. Would this benefit from the Pertronix system? If so, which level since they have three?

1968Cutlassfallbrook

Also with the Pertronix do you need to remove the dist. from the block? Also does anyone have some instructions as I have a set a friend gave me and have thought of installing just no instructions.

copper128

They tell you to remove the distributor with the IgniterII, but I didn't and it works fine.
Here's the installation instructions:
http://www.pertronix.com/support/man...itor12vneg.pdf
Google is your friend

OLD SKL 69

As others said, a properly working points distributor will give you good trouble free service. I usually get 3-5 yrs out of a set of points these days since I am not driving the cars that much.

I had pertronix in one of my cars and liked it, but it stopped working. Car would not even turn over. If you decide to go that route, make sure you keep an extra set of points, condenser in the glove box just in case.

No, but it sure makes it very easy to put it the distributor out of the car. If your distributor has never been touched, it's a good bet the grease inside the housing has solidified and stopped lubricating properly. Good time to take it apart and clean and lubricate everything.

BlueCalais79

BlueCalais79

I have a Mallory E-Spark in my 1972 Cutlass S and its the same principal. When these things stop, you're stuck. I've been thinking about converting back to points & condenser for this reason. I had a 72 Cutlass I sold last year that I had for 3 years with the points/condenser set-up, never touched it, and it ran great.

I guess it all depends how and how often you plan to use the car.

jpc647

I have one out of what looks like a newer 76 vintage Oldsmobile motor. The last owner did it. I hate it. I've had nothing but problems. It randomly surges and the fuse pops, or the electricity element in the distributor blows(this happened once, could have just been old).

It'd shy away from them. But my car is cursed.

MDchanic

Most of us here of "a certain age" drove cars with points for many years with no particular problems.

I also had a '68 F--d with a 390 that the previous owner had put a fancy Accel coil and a fancy "billet" electronic distributor into. Within the first 2,000 miles, I had replaced both (having been stranded on the side of the road two different times). Fortunately the guy had left the old parts in the trunk, so all I had to do to get rolling was to put the 40-year-old parts back in, and I was off again, running like a champ.

I think the new electronic systems like Pertronix are kind space-age neato, and one day I will spend the money and install one for the "cool factor," but I will also carry a spare set of points for when it strands me because I really don't trust electronics the way I trust a points system. I will not delude myself into believing that the electronics will make my car run better.

- Eric

boondocker

So all the performance claims from Pertronix doesn't justify changing from a points type system, is this just hype?

PERTRONIX II

Adaptive dwell maintains peak energy throughout the entire RPM range, reducing misfires while improving engine performance.
Develops on average 4 times more available energy between 3000 and 5000 RPM, and 2 times more available plug voltage.
Peak current level is reached just prior to spark for maximum energy without the heat build-up, increasing coil and module life.
Adjusts spark timing at higher RPMs to compensate for the inherent electronic delay.
Senses startup and develops more energy for quicker, easier starting. Built in reverse polarity and over current protection shuts down the system, preventing component damage.

MDchanic

Yup.

Pertronix III is the latest, and bestest, as far as I know...

That's nice.
Do you have any problems with inadequate energy anywhere in the RPM range now?
Normally, energy output with points decreases with RPMs, and starts to be an issue around 5,000 or 5,500. If you're not racing you'll never get there (your auto trans probably shifts around 4,500), so this is not a problem for you.

Are you having problems with misfires?
If so, have you had a tune-up lately?
If not, then why is this important?

Improving performance? How? How much?

It's good that it's available, but will your engine use it?
More energy is needed for higher compression and leaner mixtures.
If your car is within the stock design parameters, the stock system supplies enough energy to get the job done. If you're running 11:1, then that's another story.

So, it gives you four times the energy, but two times the voltage...
Since energy (in watts) is volts times amps, then that means it delivers twice the voltage and twice the current. That's good, but may be overkill, as stated above. Also, this would be more a function of the coil than of the points or electronic module (though the module can help by sending a hotter, but shorter-duration pulse to the coil), so the question is, are they saying that their module does this, or that their module and coil combo does this?

No. There is voltage, but no current flow until the spark actually occurs. The spark is the current flowing through the gap (and through the wires, etc.). No spark, circuit is not complete, no current.
Now, the peak voltage level is reached just before the spark, because once the spark occurs, the voltage stops rising, as current is now flowing, sort of like a safety valve on an air compressor.

Okay. By how much?

That's what your centrifugal advance does.
This may do it better. Who knows? Is it a reason to buy it?

Why is this important? Your points system senses startup because the solenoid pulls in and energizes the coil directly from the battery, rather than through the resistor. Nothing new here.

Are you experiencing slower, harder starting now?

... in case you should happen to connect it wrong.
Completely irrelevant to the operation of the unit.

So, like I said, one day I'll get one 'cause it's cool, but it is unlikely to improve the operation of a well-tuned engine very much, if at all.

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

I am seeing that myself, so I have shelved the idea to add the points eliminator. The points in my 72 have 5k miles on them and it runs so smooth at idle I have to check the tach to see if the engine died.

boondocker

Eric,

Thanks for the reply, I'm assuming your questions are rhetorical because these claims where a cut and paste. I'm in the process of reviewing my ignition options on a mild engine build (355, Flatops, XE262, C.Ruggles performance Qjet, etc...). Like "Nails" I have a stock points system as well as an Accel Super Stock coil and MSD Blaster 5900 (in a box never opened).

MDchanic

Yes, clearly you had posted up their advertising copy, and I was answering their advertising points in the same way that I do in my head as I read things like that.

I'm not saying that they have a bad product - by all accounts they've got a good product - but I am saying that the likelihood that their product will make a noticeable improvement in how your motor runs is slight, so spend your money on other things first, and then on a whiz-bang ignition unit when you've got some to spare (that, and always carry a spare set of pre-adjusted points and condenser in case your Buck Rogers module fails in the middle of BFE).

- Eric

rptw32

save your money up for a trans swap to a TH350 and you'll get etter performance vs. the 2 spd powerglide. Few more changes required for the swap over but you can throw a lot of parts on it and it will still not perform on the street as good as with a 3 spd trans.

Frank3

There is some very good advise here , But I would add this ...
You should always run some sort of ignition box with a points eliminator , this is for voltage protection during low battery start up ( which can cause a voltage spike from the alternator when the car starts , and pertains to cars that sit for long periods like collector cars or race cars ) , jump starting , or spikes from the points type regulator .
Mallory unilite distributors got a bad rap this way . No box means blown lights .
Also MSD , or most any ignition box offers higher voltage , longer duration or multiple sparks . And you may not realize the benefit of a points eliminator , or ignition box , but they are there .
More complete combustion , easier starts when cold , hot ( always a problem with my '68 until I put MSD on ) , or when flooded ( it happens ) , and possible cleaner emissions ( if you feel green ) .
I pulled the MSD off my '93 Chevy p/u for a friends race car , I never felt it really did anything for it anyway , then thought the truck felt sluggish , and it lost 2mpg .
It went back on !
Also if you do run an ignition box your stock style coil wont live , so save your original coil and get one to work with the box .
My '68 has an Accel points eliminator , MSD 6a and a MSD Blaster II coil . and a curve kit , and an adjustable vacuum advance .
If you feel that it wont do you good don't do it , but if you install a complete system , don't short cut .

rustyroger

You wont see much improvement on a stock engine, however electronic setups need almost no maintenance and stay in tune, depends how many miles you intend to cover.
If it's lots of miles you will get your money back simply because the engine will use a little less gas by staying in tune, strangely enough if you only use the car rarely it also may be worthwhile as the points contacts can build up a layer of corrosion over time.
I put a set of points in a car once as part of a tune up, it ran just fine but a few days later the car ended up in a police pound for 10 months or so. I was asked to collect the car and couldn't get it running until I put another set of points in.

snowballs442

I went back and forth on that and finally changed it . Once I did I got so used to it that I was glad that I did. No big horsepower increase but it was dependable and less things going wrong. Have not had anytrouble since.

Thor-HoG

This is a great thread. Many thanks to all, and I particularly like MDchanic's frank and detailed explanations and opinions.

I've been going back and forth on this for a while myself, mostly because I'm in "regeneration mode" on my Cutlass and am replacing what I can with new parts as I can. So I was going to get a new coil anyway. I think I'm going to go ahead and get a new coil and EI, but now I know to keep the old points in the trunk just in case Very good info guys, thanks.

Lee_A

http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com

The link is to a friend of mine, Dave Ray. He takes a points distributor, takes it totally apart and makes sure everything is in spec. He then converts it to magnetic pick-up (like the MSD distributors) and curves it however you like.

You can either hook it directly to an MSD type box, or use a GM HEI module.

Your distributor will look stock, perform as well as an MSD distributor, but still have vacuum advance AND cost a lot less.

I've been sending my distributors to Dave since the late 90's, and all have worked great.

FWIW!
Lee Atkinson

brown7373

I've used Pertronix in several old cars for years and never had a failure. A 70 Bonneville convertible loged over 80,000 miles with it, and a 69 Corvette, about 40,000, both over about 15 years. The only one that saw a performance gain was the vette with 350 horse 350 and 11:1 compression. Cheap points would float above 5000 rpm (6000 red line). I tried Accel with heavy duty spring, and they would last about 3000 miles. The Pertronix runs like you just installed brand new points all the time, with no adjustments needed.

boondocker

Brown, is it connected directly to the coil or does it have a intermediary, like an MSD box? ...as Frank3 eluded to.

brown7373

The Pertonix connects directly to the coil, but with two wires instead of one like the points system. One to the positive and one to the negative. It is usually impossible to see when the air cleaner is on, as it covers up the coil and wires.

Frank3

The mag pick up would not be as susceptible to damage by charging system irregularities as the light style . Magnetic pick up is what is found in most OEM distributors , and is very reliable .
I do still suggest a CD ignition box as an improvement over single , set duration spark .

Rus

I replaced the factory points system in my 72 350 2bbl with a factory HEI system for a 76 350 back in 1996. I'm not sure that I noticed much in the way of increased power, but it sure was a lot more dependable than the original points system. After being stranded on the side of a busy highway three times in one week due to the general crappiness of the points available at parts houses, I thought it was a good move to make. And I haven't had problem one with the new system once I got everything set right.

The only regret that I have is that I had to ditch my factory air cleaner because the new distributor cap was too big for it to fit, and replace it with a smaller aftermarket POS. Which required a little creative routing of vacuum lines and whatnot. It's not a huge thing, but I really did like the original one.

My442

Points start to degrade as soon as you drive.

The electronic ignition stays constant.

I have used the Pertronix III, and it cleaned up the idle and the engine runs better.

It has a rev limiter built in as well.

I would not go back to points again.

lemoldsnut

electronic ignition makes it very easy and requires much less adjustment. But, you were talking about power increase. A gear change would give you the most noticeable increase there. But, to get one you give up another. Almost in everything. Check your gear ratio. Common was 2:73/2:78 and 3:08 gears in a 67 Cutlass. Not much for seat of your pants feel for acceleration. But, nice for highway cruising. If that is the case then going to 3:23 or 3:55 would make a big difference in out of the hole performance. But reduce top end. Even going to 3:90 would really make a difference. But again top end suffers.
Then there is the other big change. There is an old saying, "there is no substitute for cubic inches" A big block 400, 425 or 455 would wake it right up. Yes we are talking much more than an ignition change for any of this. But, we are also talking about power that you feel.
Even a change to a more modern 4 speed automatic with lower 1 and 2 gears and a overdrive with a rearend gear change makes a huge difference.

All in how far you want to take it. A 330 is a great engine. Produces great power and winds up quick. But, needs gearing to get there.

Just some more input.

Larry