Larry/car

Power brake vacuum line routing., note check valve original factory install.photo2_zps67962c06.jpg

Larry/car

Power brake vacuum line routing to vacuum tank.photo3_zpsc52bc5f8.jpg

therobski

Larry/Car I will be working on the 62, and 67 this weekend I will respond with some fixes and discoveries, thanks for your time

Larry/car

GM engineers should have gotten an award for the most over engineered car heating system ever! It does work nice , is quiet and operates really smooth. Until my system failed to operate never really gave it any thought. I tested mine operating the cowl fresh air vents first. I then operated the other components, everything is working. Don't hesitate to ask questions, have fun!

therobski

Larry/Car Here is what I discovered and started fixing. The traced blue lines in the pictures looks like that is the vacuum off the fuel pump to the dash. I ran a new line with a Dorman union, but the line coming out of the dash is smaller and I don't have a union fitting that small. In another picture a large traced green line also comes out of the dash to nowhere the other traced purple line comes from the gas tank??? The traced red line comes out from under the carb bowl to the distributor-yours shows a T fitting? That's where I'm at today thanks,

Larry/car

Blue line on the pump is the one that goes to the dash (main vacuum scorce). The small line you show in picture three is the correct line size that goes to the heater/ventilation control units directly from the fuel pump, trace line to the T fitting, refer to my first picture #33. (Suggest using the small original size line from the pump, size could effect system operation). Picture three, you lost me with the T fitting, I need to see more of the installation. I looked at your previous pictures and they don't show where it goes. The red vacuum line goes to the vacuum advance and is correct. Ignore the T fitting on my car (aftermarket oiler). Only three lines go through firewall on my car; main vacuum (fuel pump to T fitting), heater water control valve (thermostat [see my picture seven to water control valve #40]), outside air valve on right side (ventilation control unit to vacuum valve on air box [right side of car front of firewall].

Larry/car

Power brake vacuum line goes from rear carburetor through T (steel line T aft of the carburetor going to the left top of the fuel/vacuum pump, hose then continues aft to check valve than on to brake master cylinder to vacuum tank. . (Refer to my third picture #35). That T between the blue hoses has me confused.

Larry/car

Your right inner fender exposed lines are different than mine. There is a fuel line that goes from fuel strainer back to fuel tank. Excess fuel/pressure is tapped off fuel in line (two barrel carburetor can't flow, same pump as the four barrel has). Your fuel line/strainer is different than mine.

Larry/car

I have been thinking about these lines. The large green line that terminates on the right inner fender, what under dash component is it from? I think the purple line was cut off, see #48. Got to take more pictures.

therobski

I will be back home tomorrow. I will take a pictures of the lines running through the grommet through the firewall. Interesting

Larry/car

The vacuum advance line is correct, now let's progress from there. Suggestion; next install the small diameter vacuum line from pump to under dash T just like mine. My engine runs perfect and the environmental system works as designed so let's duplicate all my lines.

therobski

I got some smaller line ( blue) but seems I need a few 3mm barb couplings to mate the line to whats on the pump and another one up by the firewall. So look at the pictures of the three lines coming out of the firewall, the larger one is the same one pictured above in (green) that terminates on the fender well-so where does that go? Then you mentioned the other is some sort of fuel strainer/vent (traced in orange) Can you send me a picture of your set up. Thanks

Larry/car

The small line is available, almost the same as windshield washer tubing. It just slides over the tubing and rubber tubing elasticity holds it in place. No clamps. Fuel pump should only have a 1/8 small metal tube that the hose slides onto. The orange line is the fuel return line (trace to the steel tubing on the right inner frame, goes aft and another rubber line that goes to fuel tank). Fuel return is tapped off the fuel strainer on top of engine, excess fuel is routed to tank that two barrel carburetor can't use. That green line, you will have to crawl under the dash and see what it is attached too, I don't know. Seems your car had some modifications, we will have to sort through it. I'll take more pictures, be a day or two till I post them, extremely busy at work.

therobski

Washer tubing is what I had originally to only discover its one size to big, and you mentioned using one size bigger could effect the performance of the system-I believe it too. At the fuel pump is also a rubber fitting and that's where in (picture one above on Sept. 12th) I managed to mate with a small barb fitting the "washer tubing I bought" to the little smaller tube off the pump. Nice we will figure it out.

therobski

I wonder is this was originally a 4 Bl carb motor???

Larry/car

Cut a small piece of the original small tubing and go to a few auto parts stores, the line is available and is cheap. Check at the smaller mom and pop stores. It just slides over that pump pipe, you have to force it over the tube to get it started. That larger green line is not referenced anywhere in the maintenance manual, wonder what it is connected to. Orange line is definately fuel return, my car has this line at same location.

Larry/car

Fuel return line picturesIMG_0467_zps7a5f9b42.jpg;IMG_0474_zpse275f700.jpgFirst picture fuel line is coming up from frame routing along inner finder. Runs under generator clamped with a bracket standoff. Second picture shows fuel line continue behind oil fill tube to T fitting on fuel bowl (under fuel inlet line).

Larry/car

Another picture of fuel return line going down to frame. PM me, I will be happy to discuss over the phone. IMG_0466_zpsd7606779.jpg

therobski

Larry/Car my fuel bowl does not have a T fitting for the fuel return line-must have been changed! And its a little different bowl. I used gray as the tracer in the pictures.

therobski

I see your return line and the line coming off the pump, cant see where they are behind the oil fill tube.

Larry/car

Reference thread #22 and 59 I see your current fuel in line routing. Fuel return is routed off T fitting behind oil fill tube continues past fuel pump to hose bracket below generator #57 from there goes to rt inner fender, lopes around suspension opening (two clamps) than travels aft down to frame #58. This is one continuous line, terminates under car at rt frame rail steel line.

therobski

My fuel bowl has not T fitting, either the wrong one or they changed while in production. I will get a T fitting fit the fuel return line to it.

therobski

On 59 look there only the fitting for the line from the fuel pump, none for the return like you have in 57

Larry/car

Your system looks so factory, fuel bowl clamped to oil fill tube, except the
fuel hose routing after fuel bowl seems odd. your car is a 1962 mine is a 1961. Maybe return fuel line was discontinued but why would the return fuel line still be there. We need someone who has 1962 with a two barrel carburetor to make determination.

therobski

I will PM tlowc34, bob p and Kahuna from the first page of this thread and see if they will chime, Thanks Larry

Larry/car

I was just looking at their pictures, the fuel in from the fuel pump is a steel line, like yours. Mine is a rubber hose. Could be a model year change.

Larry/car

My fuel bowl has fuel in on the right side, fuel is deposited into glass bowl. Fuel flows through filter than exits via elbow fitting on top of bowl to carburetor. Incorporated in the bowl cover (machined cast unit) is the fuel return on bowl cover's side toward rear of car than via elbow to right side of car and back to tank. I wonder if there is an orfice in the fuel return outlet?

tlowc34

Sorry for being absent from this thread for several months, I was in the middle of my move to Michigan.

I'm catching up on the conversation, but where I stand personally on this car is the following:

I made the HORRIBLE mistake of returning my carburetor core to Rock Auto before I actually cut the new one out of the plastic wrapper to compare them. It was the single dumbest thing I have every done in all my years of working on cars! So, I posted to the thread and was left with even more questions. So, I ran all of my vacuum lines with new tubing and made sure it matched the HVAC routing shown in the manual and any 'before' pictures I had. Then, I tried to 'guess and check' my way to the correct hookup. I still don't have it, the car runs really rough and the wipers and HVAC systems do not work (brakes do).

After hours of time looking at any image available online, comparing it to my existing parts, and the new carb, I have isolated the problems.

1. The new carburetor has an extra port. This thing is tiny and sits on the drivers side of the carb about halfway up. I mistakenly thought this was distributor advance and attached it to the dizzy. I still have to correct this mistake. It looks like I need to plug the extra one and connect the advance to the small port on the front corner of passenger's side of the carb under the fuel bowl.

2. The new carburetor full vacuum port on the back side of the base plate is threaded 1/4" npt. The old one was 3/8" npt so my brass vacuum distribution block (PVC & Brake Booster & Hard Steel Line) doesn't fit. So I have 2 brass adapters in place to make it fit.

So, I've nailed these down:

Fuel Pump Fuel Side IN > 3/8" Hose to Fuel Tank
Fuel Pump Fuel Side OUT > 3/8" Steel Line to Fuel Filter IN
Fuel Filter Out > 3/8" Steel/Rubber/Steel line to Carburetor
1/4" Hose to Fuel Tank > Vapor Port on Fuel Filter
Teeny-tiny (1/16"?) vacuum port on the LH side of Carb - PLUG
Hidden (1/4") bubble flare port on the RH side of Carb tucked sort of up and under the bowl>Vacuum Advance on Distributor

But still sorting these out:

1. Rubber hose that attached to the brass choke port on the bottom side of the intake manifold.
2. 'Wiper' side of the Vacuum Side of the Fuel Pump
3. 'Engine' side of the Vacuum Side of the Fuel Pump
4. Hard Steel Line (1/4" Inverted Flare) that comes off the same brass vacuum distribution block on the backside of the carb that the PCV valve is threaded into and attaches to the brake booster hose
5. Two Vacuum Lines at Firewall to HVAC

I'll try to take some pics, catch up on the thread, and post results.

tlowc34

I also tried contacting David Yaros, he has a restored 62 and an old website (doesn't look to have been updated for 7 years, but his Facebook picture (Yes I tried to add him as a friend) show his 62 in the background. I was/am hoping he had it figured out! Still no response though.

therobski

Here is the vacuum diagram from the 61 Shop manual, its not quite the same set as a 62. Larry/car and I figured that out. I have a 62 shop manual and this section is not in there. he shows to have a T fitting at the fuel bowl for the fuel return line does not have one but as you can see in the previous pictures mine has been plugged. Kahuna PM me and he has an original 62 and will take some pictures when he can.

therobski

TLOWC34 you should have electric wipers?

tlowc34

Yes, they are electric, but the only thing that was throwing me off was the top of the fuel pump that has 'wiper' cast into one side and 'engine' cast into the other. Mine is also all original, however I do not have a tee near the fuel filter. It has 3 ports: 3/8" from fuel pump, 3/8" to carb bowl, and 1/4" to fuel tank (recirculating line to prevent vapor lock if I'm not mistaken).

Larry/car

First time we heard of the I/4 inch line on fuel pump to fuel tank. The engine side of vacuum pump (top of fuel pump) goes to dash environmental control units on deluxe heater. The wiper side goes to a T fitting behind carburetor tapping vacuum off power brake line. My AC pump also is stamped with wiper and engine markings. Only has 3/8 inch fuel in and fuel out ports. Would like to see a picture of your pump.

Larry/car

From what I have determined, the 1962 system has a 3/8 hose from the fuel tank to fuel pump in. The fuel out side has a steel line that travels to the fuel bowl. (1961 uses a 3/8 hose to the fuel bowl). The 1962 system than uses a combination of steel line and what appears to be 3/8 hose to carburetor fuel in port. The vacuum side appears to be just like the 1961 system. I have goggled other 394 Oldsmobile engines on the web and this appears to be the system design. Post #59 shows correct fuel bowl setup.

Larry/car

Possibility fuel return line to tank comes off fuel pump on 1962. There are no fuel pumps listed for sale with the 1/4 inch fuel return port. All are Exactly like my current original pump.

tlowc34

No, I meant there is no tee near the filter. I guess that wasn't clear in my message. The filter housing is the one with the three ports 3/8" from pump, 3/8" to carb, 1/4" back to tank.

D. Yaros

Probably would have had better luck trying to contact me here, as I have been here all the time, following this thread!

What do you want/need me to do? If I can, I shall.

tlowc34

Awesome Dave, didn't realize you were here and following along!

Is your car 2BBL or 4BBL?

Mine is 2, so all of my questions relate to that setup.

1. Could you take some pictures and post of the vacuum and fuel line routing with the air cleaner off?

2. I'm trying to nail down what the brass elbow on the bottom of the driver's side intake manifold connects to. It is sort of the 'In' port for the Choke Tube that passes through the exhaust crossover of the manifold and then 'Outputs' on the passenger's side to the S-Shaped metal tube near the choke. It is nearly impossible to see with the manifold in place, but you can feel if there is a tube connected and then trace it.

3. What connects to the port on the front passenger's side corner under the fuel bowl? Tracing this would be hugely helpful to find everything that connects to it.

4. My Carburetor is rebuilt and has a tiny port on the drivers side that I believe is normally unused or non-existent in this application. Can you confirm?

5. What does each vacuum port on the top side of the Fuel Pump connect to?

6. Where do the lines coming out of the firewall (from the HVAC system) go?

Thanks Dave!

therobski

Dave can you see in the thread pictures of mine above where I traced in different colors my problems. Really appreciate it.

D. Yaros

TODD, I have sent you 2 emails with a bunch of pics. Study the mails/pics and we'll go from there.

You may post pics here if you wish for others to review, but there are a lot of them.