DigitalFubar

ok im wanting to know why there is a huge difference in throttle response in park or neutral vs in drive.. in park my car sounds like ill burn the tires until i have no rims but i get no where near that in drive..

i have a 455 with a holley street dominator intake with a 750cfm holley carb with the choke stuck open. stock heads but 3 inch pipe and flowmasters back..

any help and suggestion would be great..
I always hear how these 455s are monsters but mine is really embarrassing..

oldcutlass

Whats your timing set to and what distributor are you running?

DigitalFubar

lol I dont know lol.. hate to say it that way.. but i got the car with most of the stuff on it..
would pictures help?

forgive my ignorance.. but im self taught and no other car guys around me that i know of or talk to..
2OdCiOLl.jpg
ARYaY6nl.jpg
SmOwypMl.jpg

oldcutlass

Do you have a timing light and more importantly can you use it? Not a smart a$$ question. And yes a picture of your distributor will help.

DigitalFubar

i can get a timing light.. and yes i can use it half a$$ and i got some one that can help if need be..

whats you suggestion?

DigitalFubar

when taking a picture of the distib what are you looking for? ill take the cap off but what should i take a picture of

oldcutlass

Ok you have an Hei. Next you need to see what your timing is set to. Engines with hei's like a lot more initial timing than what the normal points engines do. Do you happen to know what the specs of your engine are, like how much compression and what cam is in it? Possibly what year it is?

droldsmorland

Is that HEI distributor running off a full "keyed" 12 volts and not the original resistor wire for the point dist? Also you likely have a high rear gear probably a 2 series? That could be holding you back from roasting the rear hides. Start investigating how to super tune. There is much potential to be had simply tuning what you have before you start bolting on parts. That distributor may need to be recurved if its off a smog era engine.
Also you can tune the timing by ear but its nice to see what all 3 timing events are doing with a back set timing
light. Get yourself a vac/pressure gauge. That's a cheap and valuable tool in tuning. You can time the engine with that as well.

MDchanic

In Park and Neutral there's no load on the engine. Of course it revs quickly.

- Eric

DigitalFubar

I was told by the olds museum that it was a high comp engine.. but other than that no clue.. would the coul tag or engine numbers tell you?
and for the timing.. what should it be at? and what should this car idle at?

DigitalFubar

again no clue.. it was there when i got the car.. I do know that i put in a 140 amp alternator tho thats internally regulated because thats what was there before..

AS FOR TUNING.. YOU HAVE ANY PLACES TO START?

oldcutlass

Did you purchase the car from them? It has non stock performance items on it, so I'm assuming possibly some internal mods also. I would check the timing as it sits with the vacuum advance disconnected at idle and at 3000 rpm. Please post what you find. We can go from there.

DigitalFubar

ok will do..

DigitalFubar

Ok did like you asked and found out its retarded..

lets say these 3 lines are the timing marks.. l/\/\/\ the first straight line is where im at
at idle.. when you plug the vacuum advance the timing mark is not visible at 3000 rpm.
when you take it up slow you can watch it walk off and disappear..

So I take it I have to advance it.. but exactly how do i do that? is there and bolts holding the distrib in place? or do i have to take the cap off and mess with some thing?

billmerbach

Loosen the hold down clip piece and turn it clockwise? Is it clockwise other eric?

DigitalFubar

and where exactly is that? its not where the manual says it should be for the year..

billmerbach

Should be right below the distributor

MDchanic

Exactly the way it says to in the Chassis Service Manual.

Remember the Chassis Service Manual?




Timing is 5° BTDC for low compression 455, 7.5° BTDC for high compression 455.

- Eric

oldcutlass

Don't adjust anything yet. Is the line on the first or the last notch to the left facing the engine. Does your timing light have a **** on it like this?

DigitalFubar

no my timing light doesn't have a **** on it.. and if your facing the engine its a hair before the far left mark at idle.. so ]/\/\/\ (]) represents my timing mark..and where it sits facing the engine.

all right got a mechanic friend that works at a shop looking at it and he says its really retarded.. and that it needs to be advanced..

I told him im talking to you fine people on the forum and he said cool any advice he is willing to take.. lol.. although he did sound a little sarcastic..

oldcutlass

So basically it's at 7.5 deg before top dead center according to the tab that Eric posted above. The reason I asked for you to check it at 3000 rpm is because you have a later model distributor that probably has a different advance curve in it than your original. In most cases it has about 17-20 degrees of mechanical advance. So the stock setting is low for that hei distributor. What you need is a timing light with a dial in the back to make this easy to figure out. There are other ways of doing it, just more complicated. Can you borrow one with a dial on it?

MDchanic

Oh yes it is.

I added the titles so it would be easier to find:





I'm not sure where you're getting that, Eric.

He said this:
(I made his mark red, to make it easier to see)

That puts him at about 2.5° AFTER TDC.



Absolutely correct, and I completely forgot those photos he posted above.

Follow Eric's instructions for timing, as setting it to factory settings will make your car run like a dog (though not as bad as it's running now).


- Eric

oldcutlass

MDchanic

I think, like many here, the OP is making extra work for us by following a "Punctuation Optional" policy.

I think I see what you mean, but I interpreted the above quote this way:
- Eric

oldcutlass

LOL, so if I'm looking at the engine and it's almost all the way to the left (normally where 10 is) facing the tab then...7.5 or close to 10? As Bugs Bunny would say "eeeh could be".

MDchanic

Oh, wait.

I just saw a completely different way of looking at this - it's probably the way you saw it, but it didn't even occur to me.

I ASSumed that he meant:



But you thought he meant:



I have no idea which of us is correct.

Also, he drew the timing tab with three points, when it's got four:


- Eric

oldcutlass

MDchanic

Well, one of us is right, anyway.

Your idea is as good as mine. If it's mine, he's VERY retarded, if it's yours, he's just really retarded.

Either way, he's got to follow the advice you've given so far, and, probably, replace his weights, springs, and vacuum can to get an advance curve he can work with.

I'll stay tuned...

- Eric

MDchanic

Well, actually, this:


- Eric

oldcutlass

LOL, Zackly.

DigitalFubar

Oh easy guys.... im not being funny with this post and if im offending you in any way im sorry.. I know enough to get in trouble.. and some times im looking for a little reassurance on some things.. and yea ..
well my car sounds good at idle but is weak in the power.. my buddy thinks its the points in the distrib.. and if not that then a worn distributor..

when we put it at where it should be for the timing it got crap power..floor it and no power.. so we tried 1250 rmps and a 1000 rpms and that seems to be where it likes to be.. but he thinks the points need to be looked into..

again if i'm offending people in here I apologize as its not my intentions.. Im just a little frustrated with this lack of power thing..

He is also thinking like yall.. that the engine might be built a little bit.. he thinks it might have a non stock cam in it and he thinks it should have more power..he doesnt think it should roast the tires
but do a more grab and bit..

DigitalFubar

this --
but here ya go.. my timing at idle before this started is the blue mark..
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and to clarify.. i mistook this as the adjustment point for the distrib.. my mistake..
QbIGdFWl.jpg

DigitalFubar

this is what my buddy said id probably need to do..

MDchanic

This simplifies things greatly.

If your buddy has actually seen your engine, then your buddy is an idiot and you need to ignore his advice.

You have posted photos here of your distributor, and it's HEI. It has no points.
Its appearance is distinctive and impossible to mistake for a points distributor by anybody who has any real experience working on cars of this era, so if your buddy said that, you need to politely stop asking for his advice.



Darn. I owe you a beer, Eric.



The adjustment is this picture is the points dwell adjustment. You don't have points. That's why you don't have this adjustment.



I think you should follow Eric's [edit: and your buddy's] advice, either get a dial-back timing light or mark your balancer to be able to read to about 55° BTDC, get an HEI timing recurve kit, and completely reset your timing.
That may fix your problem, bit, frankly, as you pointed out, you have no idea what's inside your engine, so it is quite possible that the combination of internal components may be one that would never run well no matter what.

It may be a good time to post a lot of pictures of your engine, to see if anything gives us any ideas.

- Eric

steverw

Digital im not sure how you took what MDchanic said, when he says your very retarted hes not talking about you. Hes talking about the timing being retarted which is the opposite of being too advanced. LOL, it appears to me you think hes slamming you when actually hes not. And you do have an HEI distributor which is electronic, it has no points.

DigitalFubar

lol.. look.. even if he was calling me RETARDED lol.. I can run with the best of em... and im the one here looking for advice.. haha.. so if being called retarded is all i get im good lol.

but naw talk to me like im an idiot and explain it to me like im retarded.. that way i wont have to ask twice.. and ill get it.. this shop manual leaves alot to be desired in the ways of what i need to do.. and i assume it assumes you all ready know what your doing.. and i know enough to get my self in trouble and im 100% self taught and following advice of people like you folks..

but as to my buddy lol.. he is a damn good mechanic.. but he works on newer cars and he is kinda an ***.. always needs my help with some thing electronic but hardly ever comes to give me a hand.. so politley not asking him for advice is what i usually do...

MDchanic

"Oh no he di'i'nt" think that.

Did he?

I hope not. It didn't even occur to me that it could be read like that.

Oops.

- Eric

DigitalFubar

ALL RIGHT ILL GET TO POSTING PICS HERE IN A FEW.. and how should i mark my balancer? i would think i need to make a template that matches the timing marks and mark it according to that? so each mark is = to 5% so i would need 10 marks the size of the stock timing marks correct?

oldcutlass

Yes, he/we were not making fun of you. Your actually doing well for a novice. I would not rush out for a recurve kit yet as I think we can get it to run just by advancing the timing a bit and possibly you may have to buy an adjustable vacuum advance canister. If you can get me the settings I asked for we can go from there. Please do not adjust anything yet, be patient, and your car quite possibly will smoke the tire/s.


A good timing light is not very expensive.

DigitalFubar

lol naw its cool.. i didnt take it that way but it can be read that way hahaha..