Delta88Vert

I've got a '75 Delta 88 Royale convertible and I'm having top issues. Right now, the top is up and won't go down. When you put the switch to down, nothing happens - no sound, no movement. It's like it's disconnected.

When you put the switch to up (even though the top is already up) it kind of jerks back a bit then stops. I've tried disconnecting the drive cables from the back and then moving the switch back and forth in an attempt to get the motor unstuck, which worked one time. This time it didn't work.

I have noticed over the past month or so that one side of the top goes up slower than the other in the beginning and then catches up after it goes about 1/3 of the way up. Not sure if something is binding or catching, and there's no noise associated with it.

Can anyone help?

Allan R

Arrrgghhh!! I hate it when that happens.

Maybe try getting in touch with Rob Young - Lady72nRob71 he has a 72 vert and knows a lot about how they function. I'm sure the one for your car uses the same mechanical features as the one in the A Bodies. From the sound of it, your pump is shot.

rocketraider

Welcome to the world of the scissor top. No hydraulic pump here- it's ALL ELECTRIC.

You have a relay in addition to the electric motor and transmission assembly. Either could be faulty after nearly 40 years. Switch also could be bad.

Pull the RH dash trim plate off and you'll be able to remove the switch from the dash. Unplug it and do normal continuity checks to make sure the switch is functioning- they're bad about corroding inside and making poor contact. Then get a heavy (10-12 gauge) jumper wire and jumper across the plug and see if the top motor responds.

If it doesn't, you have relay or motor problems. If it does, it's the switch. You CAN take the switch apart and clean the internals.

If you determine it's the switch and cleaning doesn't help, go to an electronic supply store and get a SPDT (single pole double throw) heavy duty switch with spring return to OFF. You can adapt it to your dash until you can find another factory type. I believe 74-76 Custom Cruiser tailgate and rear window switches are the same.

Those top drives need to be synchronized every so often, but it's been 15 years since I did one so I'd have to check the Fisher manual myself.

Kennybill

Sounds like multiple problems. First to synchronize, top up, locked at windshield header, disconnect drive cables at each top actuator. Connect drive cables to each top actuator, actuators are now sychronized. That relives any twisting-pressure out of one cable or the other. Check the ends of the cables to see if any "rounded off"- may cause slipping. There are brass bushings that wear also. I never just "run" mine into the up or down postion. By that I mean when going down I get a foot away, stop, make sure the top is folded nice, gently push down each side getting everything even. Then continuing down slowly. A little push each side and maybe a short burst of down on the switch. Just enough so I can snapped the boot. Going up I stop short of the header, then proceed slowly just till I can lock, never forcing using motor power. The one side vs the other going up may not mean anything because the left side rail folds before the right rail upon stacking. I can't remember why (old age maybe) but I latch and unlatch my pass-side first. I read to do this somewhere. For the electrical problem take Rocketraider's advice. You problably should get a Fisher body "Folding Top Supplement." I have one for my 1971. I redid the bushing before the new top about 7 years ago. It didn't work when I pulled the car off a hill in Pa. Previous owner had forced it up/down thinking it was hydraulic. Since rebuild, with "babying" it -no problems. If u need more help let me know, Ken

MDchanic

Here's some electrical troubleshooting I did on mine, and here's the thread with Rob's posts about cleaning up his Cutlass switch.
The motor can also be disassembled and cleaned with some care and minimal effort.
No part of the Cutlass top system is anything like yours. At all.

And WildAboutCars has a copy of the Fisher Body Manual ('71, I think) with your top mechanism in it. You should have no problem buying a hard copy of your year's manual on eBay, though.

- Eric

rocketraider

I think I'd pull those drive cables and make sure they're OK. I've had a couple of them to disintegrate and fray all over the place. When they do that whichever side has failed will not operate or will operate slower.

Doesn't hurt to clean and lube the actuators every so often either. WD40 to clean, a little spray can white grease to lube.

You know, as much as I like the look of the early 70s big convertibles, that stupid scissor top is the reason I won't own another. Hydro-E-Lectric www.hydroe.com can service most of the scissor top stuff, but their prices are not for the faint of heart esp considering the real-world value of these cars.

Delta88Vert

Thanks rocketraider, MDchanic, Kennybill and Allan R. I'll get to work on this stuff as soon as I can get back into my buddies shop (hopefully in the next week or two) and report back. Sounds like the answer has to be somewhere in all your advice.

The plastic clip on the passenger side actuator cable is cracked, though the metal clip that goes over it seems to hold it in place. Should I order a new one just to be safe?

Delta88Vert

UPDATE:
Figured out how to get the switch out of the dash via the ashtray slot today. Tested it and figured out that the motor was working fine when we bypassed the switch, so the switch was an issue.

One of the wires to the connector between the switch and the rest of the electrical system was loose. Tightened that. One of the rivet points where the wire connects to the switch was a bit loose... managed to tighten that more. Then took the switch apart and cleaned the two tiny rods inside. Put it all back together and now power was going to the motor in the down and up position (previously only up position).

So, now the top goes down no problem. Going up, it's getting stuck about 1/4 of the way up (seems like passenger side), then the motor shuts off. If you wait a few seconds, I can get it to go up a bit, then it gets stuck again and the motor shuts off. If you help if a few times more it'll make it past the 1/2 point then go by itself. We noticed that there was rubbing marks on the 3rd bow guide (the guide is fine, but there's definitely marks where one of the scissors is rubbing) and the two scissors bump each other a bit when they fold. That is, as each side bends in, they rub against each other. I'm assuming this isn't supposed to happen. We tried tightening the main pivot point behind the passenger's side window but that didn't seem to help. It seems as though there is too much play in the passenger side scissor.

Disconnected the actuator cables, shook the car (that's seriously what the manual says to do) and reconnected them. No difference.

I also noticed that my actuator cable on the passenger's side has a broken plastic clip. The metal clip that holds the plastic clip is there, but I'm guessing that's not helping this situation so I'm planning on getting a new cable.

Other thoughts are to check/replace the relay to the motor and possibly lthe motor itself... seems like the motor may be overheating and shutting itself down. Also trying to figure out how else to adjust the scissors to stop the top from getting stuck going up.

I've got the 1975 Fisher book and the service manual. Still worth getting that convertible supplement?

Any other suggestions on how to adjust the top, or if the motor/relay could be the culprit?

rocketraider

The convertible supplement is 1971 only. It was incorporated into the Fisher manual after that so no need to get it. 71 also has some things that are "different", i.e. siderail tensioner cables that the other years don't have.

Have you lubed all the pivot points and ball joints on the top frame?

These tops get sloppy after so many years so there may be more play than there shoudl be. The scissors should glide past each other when the top is stacking but I don't think there should be any contact.

Delta88Vert

UPDATE AGAIN: After a lot off messing around, we got the scissors to stop catching each other and the mechanism now seems to be working better. There are still occasional noises and thumps, but at least they don't catch.

Now the issue is that the switch is shot. Took it apart and cleaned it a few weeks back, but it works only sporadically after running it a few times. In fact, by bypassing the switch and connecting the wires directly, the top works faster than it ever has, further proving that the switch is done.

Where, oh where can i find another switch? I've heard it may be the same one as vista cruisers used for the rear gate window switch. Are there other GM cars that used this switch? Any idea where the GM part number might be? it's not on the switch. Does anyone know anyone who could rebuild the one I have? I'm willing to spend some money to get this fixed... it's eating away at my soul. I realize that I will be dealing with these top issues for the rest of my life, but I'd like to ease the pain just a bit )

Any help is much appreciated!

Corey

bdub217

http://www.gtoman.com/inventory-item...tem=1037335120

I cant find a pic of what yours looks like mind posting one of yours if you can? I'll check the local yards tomorrow for a convertible switch =) I'll send it to you right away if I find one.

rocketraider

The 69 switch bdub shows won't work. I have a junker 76 Custom Cruiser. I'll look at the parts book and if the top and tailgate switches are the same and the ones I have test good, I'll work you a deal. Keep in mind it may take me a while to get to it as the car is 20 miles away.

BTW, you shoudn't have to go in thru the ashtray. The woodgrain trim panel pulls off and you can get to the switches that way.

MDchanic

The part number of the switch won't be the same, because the the top switch says TOP on it and the tailgate widow switch says GATE.

The INSIDES on the switch should be the same, though.

- Eric

rocketraider

74-76 cars in my experience have labels that apply to the switch bezel on the dash fascia while the switch itself mounts to the dash structure behind the fascia and pokes thru it- unlike 71-73 where the whole thing, switch and bezel, mounts from the front side of the dash pod. If the switch is the same electrically it will work.

MDchanic

Oh, darn, you're right - he's got the flat dash, not the pod dash.

Yeah, I have no idea what those controls look like. I don't think I've ever seen one up close. The local yard has only '71 to '73's (unless I've missed some).
I will keep this in mind, though, the next time I go by there. I know there are no convertibles in that year range there, though.

- Eric

Delta88Vert

Here are a few shots of the switch. rocketraider, you're right: the labels for the UP and DOWN are printed on the wood grain panel surrounding the switch.

If anyone can find one of these I'd be grateful! The loose wires I've got to connect to move the top up and down will one day electrocute me. Gonna mount a temp switch under the dash this weekend, but it's gonna eat at me until it's fixed right.

- Corey

Delta-top-switch-back-smal.jpg
Delta-Top-switch-side-smal.jpg
Deltatopswitchtopsmall.jpg

bdub217

you can get the guts of another working switch and reassemble it. I cant find any switches that look like that handle wise. =/ basically what im sayin is put the handle on a different switch

rocketraider

Well- I looked in the CC yesterday afternoon and only one of the switches is there . I don't remember salvaging one of them because the Ninety Eight has only power antenna and defog and those switches ARE different.

I also have to figure out how to get the front doors open to get at that one as the buttons are frozen. I have to check the parts book too.

Delta88Vert

Thanks for checking. Do you think there's any chance it's the right switch? What kind of car is it in?

rocketraider

OK- looked in the 1974 and the 1976 parts books and found that the 1974-75 convertible top switch and the 1974-76 tailgate window switch are the exact same part number though they're found in different groups.

Folding top switch: Grp 14.485 p/n 415498, switch, folding top, on instrument panel, 1974-75 BN67.

Tailgate window switch: Grp 12.195 p/n 415498, switch, end gate window (on instrument panel), 1974-76 BQ, BR. (Fullsize wagons)


The disappearing tailgate switch is a different part #- grp12.195, p/n 415495.


And unfortunately the switch remaining in that 76 Custom Cruiser dash is the tail gate switch, not the window switch. I have no idea what happened to the window switch as I don't remember taking it out, but I may have. I'll keep looking.

But you now know you can use a tailgate window switch from a 74-76 Custom Cruiser (not that they're exactly common either) in place of the 74-75 convertible top switch. All 74-76 Custom Cruisers had a power rear window.

Delta88Vert

rocketraider, that is a HUGE help. Thanks for doing that!

I'm going to set up some automated internet searches and see what comes up. In the meantime, since I'm a new Olds owner, are there are good parts guys that maybe aren't on the internet? I know in the MOPAR world there are guys who go to swap meets and car shows and have junkyards and are basically off the grid.. but they have obsure parts and wacky stuff you just can't find anywhere.

Any ideas?

jaunty75

As did the '71, '72, and '73 models. Otherwise, how the hell would you get the damn thing up into the roof?

jaunty75

Have you tried this site?

http://www.nospartsfromthepast.com/

He had a part for my '67 Delta 88 I thought it would take me years to find. He was great to work with, sending me detailed photos of the item before I bought it and then charging what I thought was a very reasonable price.

He's got a huge catalog, so it might be easier to just email him (info@nospartsfromthepast.com) and ask if he has it rather than trying to wade through all 175 pages.

His name is Winter Lane. (Yes, I know it sounds like part of a verse from a Christmas song, but that's his name.)