starfire

OK, so last year I found a 1968 Tilt floor shift column for sale. Paid more than I wanted to for it, but really, it’s not like they are falling off trees, so I sucked it up and bought it. I finally was able to install it last night, but there are problems. With my old column everything worked like it should. I install the tilt column, hook up the wire harness and find that with the ignition off and the Emergency Lights Switch on (pushed in) I have the following situation:

Both brake lights on
Both parking lights on
If I turn the turn signal lever to the left position the LH brake light turns off (RH brake light remains on), parking lights stay on.
If I turn the turn signal lever to the right position, the RH brake light turns off and the LH back on, parking lights stay on.

When I turn the Emergency Lights switch off (pulled out):
Both brake lights on
Both parking lights off
Activating the turn signal lever gives me the same result as before, except the parking lights remain off.

I'm guessing I have a short somewhere?

Where should I start? I am not giving up on this column, I paid too much for it.

Thanks,

mrolds69

My car is a couple hours away, I could be wrong but I think pushing the button IN is ON. In any event...nothing wrong with the column itself, it's an electrical problem. Did the electric stuff work right before, was there a working column in the car? I would look at...the emergency flasher relay, or the turn signal switch itself could be bad. It depends if it was working before or not.

starfire

Oops, you're right, in is on. Let me fix that.

The electrical stuff all worked perfect with the old column. I don't have any idea about the tilt column as far as if anything worked on it. BTW, it does all the same stuff with the emergency light flasher removed. Is the flasher what you mean by relay? I don't see a relay in the wiring diagram.

starfire

CSM says I have to remove the turn signal cover to remove the turn signal switch. Is it possible to remove the switch without removing the cover? If not, is there a good way of removing the cover without using tool J-22598 and slide hammer J-6125-1?

mrolds69

Right, the flasher deal that plugs into the fuse box. I said relay, but that's it. Is it a Cutlass or something else? Is it bolted in tight now with a good ground? I would double check the lights first, a bulb may have burnt out. Parking lights...walk around car, brake lights, tail lights. I have that tool, that cover won't come off any other way, don't even try, you will damage something. I think you can get the switch out w/o removing that cover. You need to get the wheel off, the rest off the stuff, push in the flasher switch. Do you have a manual? Try running a good ground to the coumn first. It's like ly the switch is bad, it IS very old! Look it over carefully before you pull it out. A bad switch will wreak havoc on the whole light system. It does WAY more than you think!

starfire

Sorry, I did what I always yell in my head at everyone else for doing.

The car: 1968 Cutlass S Convertible.

The situation: Steering wheel is off, hub is off, emergency flasher switch is in. Column is in place and bolted, but not tightened up. Does the signal switch ground through the column bolts? I don't see a ground for the signal and hazard switches in the wiring diagram.

Not sure if by manual you mean Chassis Service Manual (which I have) or manual transmission (which I don't have, but I don't think that's what you mean as it doesn't seem relevant to the discussion). It is a floor shift automatic.

I will try to get the switch out without removing the cover, but in browsing other threads on this site, it doesn't seem likely it will work. Apparently when they changed the column in 69 to put the key in there they made it a lot easier to get the turn signal switch out than in previous years.

Thanks for the help so far, keep it coming and anyone else feel free to jump in too!

mrolds69

Cutlass,...ok. Right the dealer shop manual was what I was talking about. I guess you have to pull the cover. I put a switch in my 67 GS400, I know I pulled the cover, but forget why! I think it was because the column had "wobble" in it, and you need to pull the cover to get to the screws. It is not a tilt. That tool shows up on ebay now + then, run a search for it. They are not cheap! You should be able to get a new switch. It's definitely worth the $ to get a new switch to use the column. Try to borrow the tools to fix it. Maybe someone on the board lives near you + has the tools + will respond.

starfire

Does anyone know if a turn signal switch assembly out of a floor shift, non-tilt column will replace a turn signal switch assembly in a floor shift, tilt column?

Thanks,

starfire

By working very carefully I was able to get the switch out without removing the cover. Everything looks good, but I'm going to hook my old column up and see what happens.

Does anyone know if a tilt column and non-tilt column use the same switch & harness assembly?

mrolds69

Glad you got it out! I think it might be the same for 67-68, most cars w/tilt it's not. I don't have access to my parts books now. I checked an online resource that says 67-68 ALL...the same but there were 2 switches a Boyne + a Delco. One is blue, 1 is white. I think take out your good switch, hold them together and carefully compare. You can go to Rockauto and see if they have a different switch listed for tilt. I would try it, your car is not going to blow up or anything.

starfire

According to The Parts Place listings the Boyne is for a car with cornering lights (there's an extra harness attached) but I don't think A-bodies ever had cornering lights. The Parts Place catalog is strange and even the guy on the phone was perplexed by the listings. I think if my standard column works when I plug it in (won't be able to try it until at least Sunday) I'm going to see if I can figure out how the wires come out of the clip and try swapping them. I am pretty good at getting the regular wires out of the clips, hopefully the steering column wires are similar.

Edit: Rock Auto only lists parts as "non-tilt".

mrolds69

No Olds A body had cornering lights, some GTO's did have them. The wirng would be the same, just pull the non-tilt switch with the plug on it. It will come out with the plug attached, you have to bend it and flatten it, + wiggle it, but it should come out + go in with the plug on. Why would you disconnect the wires?

starfire

Because it doesn't look like the plug will fit. I haven't looked closely at it.

starfire

OMG, I learned something today. I learned that I am an idiot. When I pulled the steering column and the dash I unhooked the brake pedal from the master cylinder. So, when I put the dash and column back in the brake light switch was still in the closed position as I did not connect the brake pedal back up to the MC. So when I hooked up the battery guess what happened? Yeah, the brake lights came on. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I reconnected the brake pedal and the 4-way flashers work fine. A little trouble with the turn signals because the metal contacts on the cam are worn, so I used the cam off of my other column and, voila, turn signals. So, now that's taken care of, but I would like to find a source for the contacts. Nobody seems to carry them. This is what they look like:

IMG_6968_zps0772387c.jpg

A close up, you can see the middle contact on the big one is toast. My other ones are in better condition, but not much. I'd like to get new ones if I can.

IMG_6969_zpsd30a11be.jpg



Now on to my next headache, for some reason my instrument lights will not work. Tried a new headlight switch, no change. Headlights, parking lights, tail lights work. If I turn the reostat all the way to full the interior lights come on as they should. Just no instruments lights. None in the fuel gage pod, none in the speedo pod, none in the tac pod, no heater control lights, no ash tray light. Dammit.

MDchanic

Glad you got the signals working! It's always something simple.

As far as the dash lights, obvious question:
Is the Panel Lamps fuse okay? Are the fuse contacts clean?
Are you absolutely certain that the rheostat in the headlight switch is working properly?

(Most of these questions can be answered by measuring voltages on one side of the fuse or the other).

- Eric

mrolds69

X2 what Eric said fuse or maybe dash is not grounded. I would pull a socket like the ashtray light and turn lights on and test with a test light to see what's going on.

starfire

I got all my lights working. Although it was a rocky start as when I got out there tonight the courtesy lights did not come on when I opened the door So I figured I would deal with them later. The map light still worked so I figured it was something simple. I started looking at the dash lights, I pulled one of the speedo lights and noticed that I had installed LED lights for the dash lights (they draw significantly less power and I was able to get them in a really cool green). I also noticed that I had put them in new sockets. So throwing the scientific method out the window, I put the bulb in an old socket and tested it with a 9V battery and it didn't work. I reversed the leads and it worked. Then I remembered reading something about LED lights being polar, if they are in the circuit backwards they won't work. So I started taking out the lights one by one, replacing sockets and putting them back in. I had to turn some of them the other way, but now they all worked. But now my LH turn indicator didn't (I left the indicator bulbs incandescent, they aren't on very much). So I pull that bulb and socket, put an old socket on it, and after putting it in and taking it out a few times, it worked again. Alright! Now just those courtesy lights. I noticed that when I was up under the dash replacing bulbs at one point the lights flashed on and then off again. So I started jiggling wires underneath the dash, but no luck. Then I sat and thought about it. When I turn the map light on, the map light and front courtesy lights are supposed to come on. When I open the door, all four courtesy lights and the map light is supposed to come on. What's not working? When I open the door. So it had to be the door switch. It was. The connector had come loose from the switch (I had surely pulled it loose when I was up there rummaging around last night) and when I connected the connector to the switch, everything was working again! I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel on this project (I just hope I don't accidentally disconnect it

Now if someone could just tell me where I put the panel for my volt gauge and water temp gauge....

MDchanic

Sounds great! Perserverence pays off.

- Eric

starfire

OK, lots of progress. Steering column is in, turn signals, 4-way flashers, dash lights, radio, 8-track player, left hand air ducts, all in and all lights and gizmos are working! I found my voltmeter/temperature panel and have those two gauges installed next to my 8-track player. Started new carpet install, got it almost done. Need to finish that up, put the seats and shifter/console in, and the steering wheel and I'll be ready to rock and roll (it over to the windshield guy to get the new windshield in). Hoping to have it ready for Woodward Dream Cruise!