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I recently moved to the El Paso area and am stationed at Fort Bliss. Before leaving WI I sold my '64 Rambler and it didn't take me long to miss having a cool old car to drive along. I looked a few vehicles and settled on my '61 Olds Super 88. It's super clean and runs, drives, and shifts like a champ. It does however have its issues and your expertise would be greatly appreciated.
First off, it has some electrical issues. At some point it was "restored" and it appears the entire electrical was replaced. I'm not all that experienced with electrical and it definitely doesn't help that im colorblind but I can navigate a multi-meter and the basics. Here are the issues:
1) There is a draw from the battery.
2) the windshield wiper switch shocks me when I switch it. Probably the draw??? Ground issue??? The wipers also stay on after activated unless downward pressure is applied to them in the down position.
3) The rear blinkers do not work (need to get this fixed now)
4) There is an inline fuse that keeps blowing ( see pic). When it does, the head lights and tail lights go out. I have an 18 gauge wire arcing it for now. Not sure what this is all about???
Does the electrical in this pic look like a mimic of factory to you all? I'm guessing all these issues are related. I also didn't find a Ground from the body to the battery negative. I'll be adding that
I appreciate your generosity ahead of time. Looking forward to learning from you all. Thanks.
Ryan
Blue = power from battery Yellow = fuse that keeps blowing Red = is this a power distribution bar?
Last edited by Grizlywinkleman; May 6th, 2024 at 07:49 PM.
Reason: Grammer
You need this. It has the factory wiring diagram along with most any other procedures to service your Space Age Oldsmobile. Get an original print copy. Reprints, CD-ROM and PDF often lose a lot of critical detail.
The rewire looks like it was done fairly neatly but no guarantee it was made for a 61 88.
Be careful using a wire as a fuse it could start a fire. A circuit breaker would be safer. I think the "hot" turn signal stalk could be an open ground or a short. Look all around the steering column for pinched wires and under the left front floor.
If you're active duty at Ft. Bliss you should sign up for help at the Auto Skills Center. I used the auto skills center on post when I was active duty. Thanks for serving.
None of that wiring is factory. I also have no idea how you can get shocked from 12 volts. You can touch both terminals on the car battery and not get shocked.
You need this. It has the factory wiring diagram along with most any other procedures to service your Space Age Oldsmobile. Get an original print copy. Reprints, CD-ROM and PDF often lose a lot of critical detail.
The rewire looks like it was done fairly neatly but no guarantee it was made for a 61 88.
I did order the service manual. I ordered the digital version from collectors auto supply. Ill go on ahead a buy a print copy too. I can forcast a ise for both. Hoping it helps a bunch. Thanks
Be careful using a wire as a fuse it could start a fire. A circuit breaker would be safer. I think the "hot" turn signal stalk could be an open ground or a short. Look all around the steering column for pinched wires and under the left front floor.
Nice looking ride, great find!
I do know I'm running a risk arcing a fuse. I will look into a automotive circuit breaker. Thank you. The shock is is actually from the wiper switch on the dash but none the less, what you suggested applies. I'll add that to the list of tasks too.
If you're active duty at Ft. Bliss you should sign up for help at the Auto Skills Center. I used the auto skills center on post when I was active duty. Thanks for serving.
Im trying to go to the auto craft class this Friday. Hopefully my command doesn't schedule me for anything. Let us pray...
Just saw that I referenced a hot turn signal stalk but you stated wiper switch...phew too late at night. Since we don't know much about the wiring let's assume for a minute it is correct, unplug the wiper switch and see if the fuse stops blowing. If it doesn't unplug the wiper motor and see if it stops blowing. A 12V test lamp could also be placed across the fuse holder with the fuse removed, if it lights there is a short to ground. Unplug connections until the light goes out...keep the car doors shut while doing this so the dome light isn't activated. Look at the car closely in the dark for any lights staying on e.g., glove box, trunk and under the hood.
Check to see if anything stays warm e.g., the generator, voltage regulator, ignition coil, starter solenoid and interior switches after the car has sat for an extended period.
Post a picture of the blown fuse, we can usually tell if it blew from a short to ground vs. a marginal current overload that created a slow melt/failure.
Until you get around to wringing out the whole system with a voltage drop test on all circuits...
Id suggest installing one of these on the negative terminal of the battery so you can turn it off and totally isolate the battery. Good idea for all old cars.Disconnect the negtive cable until you buy the disconnect.
Dont park in a garage until you do one of these
Grounds are your friend for sure.
The low hanging fruit is the wiper motor, the circuit its on or the switch.
Hire a good electrical guy if its really over your head or you just dont want to do it, Dont want to burn it, you, or your house down.
Welcome to the site and congrats on your purchase.
I have the same model and have tried to help others that were having electrical problems in addition to having some of my own. It's going to be difficult to try and help if someone has previously changed out components and rewired things. Does it still retain a generator and does it have a/c? Take a look at this link to where an electrical problem was worked on. I had uploaded two electrical diagrams for this model and a couple of photos of my engine compartment which has the original wiring. https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...always-166066/ "I also didn't find a Ground from the body to the battery negative" The negative on my battery is connected to the front of the motor and nothing else. The motor is grounded by a strap to the firewall near the distributor at the back of the motor. "The wipers also stay on after activated unless downward pressure is applied to them in the down position." Sounds like you'll need to do a series of tests to check if the wiper switch and motor are functioning properly. Here's a recent post: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...2-98-a-178921/ Check the ground strap from the wiper motor to the firewall and make sure it's making a good connection. "The rear blinkers do not work" Is it just the rear or do the front ones not work too? Do they light up and not blink? This could be all related to the fuse blowing and the headlights going out. I can see in the photo of the car the interior sail panel light is on but none of the doors are open. Post some photos of your engine compartment to get a better view of everything in there to see how everything is wired up.
I see you are missing many of the exterior trim pieces, did they include them with your purchase? You might want to fix the hood emblem it's installed upside down. Over all it looks like nice, love the color. What's written across the back window?
Another member recently had inoperative blinkers caused by the wrong bulbs. Due to the age of the car it would probably be good maintenance to pull the bulbs, confirm they are correct, inspect the sockets and connections then reinstall coating the metal socket with bulb grease.
Look, the wiring on this car is a mess. There should not be one fuse that powers both the headlights and taillights. The headlight switch has a built-in self-resetting circuit breaker. There was never a fuse on the headlight circuit (other than the fusible link on the power feed to the dash). The tail light circuit shouldn't be connected to the headlight circuit at all (again, other than that power feed wire).
Not knowing what other creative wiring has been done to this car, it's nearly impossible to provide useful debugging info. For a STOCK wire harness, the most likely cause of the rear turn signals not working when the fronts do would be the turn signal switch. Do the brake lights work? The rear turn signals and brake lights use the same filament in the 1157 bulbs and the same wiring from the turn signal switch to the back of the car. If the brake lights work, the ONLY cause of no rear turn signals is the turn signal switch. If the brake lights also do not work, it can be anything from the firewall to the back of the car.
Wow! You all are awesome. Thanks for the genuine interest in helping me out. I'll see if I can keep up with the posts. I have some time Friday and through the weekend to get after it.
Last edited by Grizlywinkleman; May 8th, 2024 at 08:11 PM.
Just saw that I referenced a hot turn signal stalk but you stated wiper switch...phew too late at night. Since we don't know much about the wiring let's assume for a minute it is correct, unplug the wiper switch and see if the fuse stops blowing. If it doesn't unplug the wiper motor and see if it stops blowing. A 12V test lamp could also be placed across the fuse holder with the fuse removed, if it lights there is a short to ground. Unplug connections until the light goes out...keep the car doors shut while doing this so the dome light isn't activated. Look at the car closely in the dark for any lights staying on e.g., glove box, trunk and under the hood.
Check to see if anything stays warm e.g., the generator, voltage regulator, ignition coil, starter solenoid and interior switches after the car has sat for an extended period.
Post a picture of the blown fuse, we can usually tell if it blew from a short to ground vs. a marginal current overload that created a slow melt/failure.
And, most importantly thank you for serving.
Here are a couple pics of the blown fuse (a 20 amp I just threw in). Let me know what you think. I'll go ahead and disconnect the wiper switch and check the ground to the wiper motor. The ground on the wiper motor looked like it may have been attached to the firewall right over paint, so definitely need to clean it up. I did put the multi-meter in the fuse slot that keeps blowing. With the car off and the battery connected, it registers 12.3 volts ( if i remember correctly). I'll confirm my findings and search for that short to ground.
Last edited by Grizlywinkleman; May 8th, 2024 at 08:12 PM.
Until you get around to wringing out the whole system with a voltage drop test on all circuits...
Id suggest installing one of these on the negative terminal of the battery so you can turn it off and totally isolate the battery. Good idea for all old cars.Disconnect the negtive cable until you buy the disconnect.
Dont park in a garage until you do one of these
Grounds are your friend for sure.
The low hanging fruit is the wiper motor, the circuit its on or the switch.
Hire a good electrical guy if its really over your head or you just dont want to do it, Dont want to burn it, you, or your house down.
Welcome to the site and congrats on your purchase.
I have the same model and have tried to help others that were having electrical problems in addition to having some of my own. It's going to be difficult to try and help if someone has previously changed out components and rewired things. Does it still retain a generator and does it have a/c? Take a look at this link to where an electrical problem was worked on. I had uploaded two electrical diagrams for this model and a couple of photos of my engine compartment which has the original wiring. https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...always-166066/ "I also didn't find a Ground from the body to the battery negative" The negative on my battery is connected to the front of the motor and nothing else. The motor is grounded by a strap to the firewall near the distributor at the back of the motor. "The wipers also stay on after activated unless downward pressure is applied to them in the down position." Sounds like you'll need to do a series of tests to check if the wiper switch and motor are functioning properly. Here's a recent post: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...2-98-a-178921/ Check the ground strap from the wiper motor to the firewall and make sure it's making a good connection. "The rear blinkers do not work" Is it just the rear or do the front ones not work too? Do they light up and not blink? This could be all related to the fuse blowing and the headlights going out. I can see in the photo of the car the interior sail panel light is on but none of the doors are open. Post some photos of your engine compartment to get a better view of everything in there to see how everything is wired up.
I see you are missing many of the exterior trim pieces, did they include them with your purchase? You might want to fix the hood emblem it's installed upside down. Over all it looks like nice, love the color. What's written across the back window?
"Does it still retain a generator and does it have a/c?" It does, the AC I'm told does not work and "Just needs to be charged" but my only voyage was 54 miles home from buying it. Ran like a champ and shifted clean but I had the windows down. I did briefly turn it on and it started pushing air but I didn't really give it enough time to get cold. I briefly looked at that link and there is a lot of info. Ill have to revisit it at a later date. Ill take a look for the ground (and condition) from the block to the firewall.
As for the blinkers, the fronts do work. The rear blinkers do not light up at all. I have one pic from my phone of the engine compartment. I'll have to get some better detailed ones this weekend.
All the trim (I believe) did come with the vehicle, minus the rocker panel trim. I want to get all the trim on that I have. I ordered some of the clips on need for mounting on ebay. I am debating on what I want to do about the rocker panel trim. I've tabled that for now.
I literally did not know about the hood emblem being upside down... hahaha. I'll fix that immediately. I appreciate the compliments! very excited to own this beautiful car. The rear window used to read "Old Times" but that's not my style so I removed it.
Another member recently had inoperative blinkers caused by the wrong bulbs. Due to the age of the car it would probably be good maintenance to pull the bulbs, confirm they are correct, inspect the sockets and connections then reinstall coating the metal socket with bulb grease.
The bulbs did look fine and the wiring coming into the connectors gave me 0 volts. Again, I do want to verify my results.
The pictures fuse has failed due to a short circuit e.g., a positive wire chafed against metal, not a slow burn on a marginally overloaded circuit. The telltales are the black burn marks and the long distance between the ends of the strip. The failure was violent, the kind where you hear it snap as it fails. A marginal overload will have a melted blob on the ends of the strip and the ends of the strip will be closer to one another.
I did put the multi-meter in the fuse slot that keeps blowing. With the car off and the battery connected, it registers 12.3 volts ( if i remember correctly).
Need a little more information than what you provided (above). ONLY (and this is IMPORTANT) one side of that spade fuse holder should be hot. IOW, you need to ensure when you say you put the multi-meter in the fuse (first off, you didn't put the multi-meter in the fuse - you put the multi-meter in the spade fuse HOLDER I am assuming); w/ no fused in the spade fuse holder you should get 12.0 VDC on ONLY one side of the spade fuse holder. You should NOT get 12.0 VDC on both sides of the spade fuse holder. So, measure the DC voltage in the spade fuse holder again and measure the DC voltage on BOTH female terminals where the spade fuse is inserted into the spade fuse holder. If you have 12.0 VDC on both sides of the spade fuse holder, that is a problem. The YELLOW wire (with the spade fuse holder) is the only wire which should be feeding power to the (+) positive bus bar.
NOTE: I created a couple of images for talking points. I noted you stated earlier BLUE arrow was your battery power cable feed, YELLOW is the fuse that keeps blowing & you asked "is this a power distribution bar?" It appears from the image the YELLOW wire is hooked directly to the battery power cable (note my arrows). This suggests the YELLOW wire is the wire supplying power (+) from the battery cable to the (+) positive bus bar. Again, ONLY one side of the spade fuse holder should have power - NOT BOTH. If you have power (12 VDC) to both female terminals inside the spade fuse holder you have an issue.
Engine Bay GEN + VR Positive Bus Bar NOTE: Yellow wire connects to (+) battery cable.
Missed that part. Yes the brake lights do work. I'm going to get some time under the hood tomorrow. I appreciate you all helping me understand and correct these issues. I'll report back with my findings.
Missed that part. Yes the brake lights do work. I'm going to get some time under the hood tomorrow. I appreciate you all helping me understand and correct these issues. I'll report back with my findings.
I know it'll be awhile before you get your book. I posted these on that other thread, so you don't have to go back and forth I'll post them again here.
You identified in your image the cable w/ the BLUE arrow was from your battery. Is the YELLOW wire (w/ the in-line fuse which keeps blowing) connected to that big black wire you identified as the battery wire (BLUE arrow)? As I said earlier, it appears as though the YELLOW wire w/ the in-line fuse is connected to the battery cable wire. It's hard to tell from the picture, but it appears they're connected. Validate this.
The part I'm struggling w/ is the OEM RED wire w/ in-line fuse. In 1961 I don't believe they used an in-line spade/blade fuse holder; yet, your image (below) demonstrates what appears to be an in-line spade/blade fuse (RED). Why it's confusing and where I'm heading w/ this is to find out which is which for establishing the function of each wire. It's almost as though someone was trying to duplicate the OEM in-line fuse from the horn relay/junction block to the voltage regulator (VR). Perplexing.
As witnessed in the original OEM wiring diagram(s) Supernice88 provided, note the location of the fuse which would normally tie directly to the VR at the BAT terminal. Did someone attempt to replicate this w/ an in-line spade/blade fuse or exactly what is the purpose of this in-line fuse? It's likely you'll get this figured out, but it's first going to take some work figuring out what the YELLOW wire w/ the in-line fuse is doing and what the RED wire w/ the in-line fuse is doing. It appears someone created a (+) positive bus bar, I think the challenge is finding out the function of each of these in-line fuses.
Here Chief I'll post these again - might help.
I'm confused, why is there a need for the power bus bar?
Thanks. I think those are going to help. It's not clear to me why the need for a power bus bar. It's not OEM but it doesn't necessarily mean it can't be installed if it was meant to accommodate a particular function. What function is anyone's guess at this point. Something is significantly incorrect if it's rapidly blowing that fuse. Going to need to sort out what is out.
Obviously, we don't know your electrical capabilities & evaluating from an armchair we can't determine where each of the wires in your image(s) begins/ends. None-the-less, it would appear evident (as has been stated previously) your wiring is not OEM original. To that end, whatever/however you elect to move forward, I've created a couple additional diagrams which will assist you in determining how to get back to the OEM original wiring without that (+) power bus bar. IOW, if you follow the wiring diagram(s) & the images provided by Supernice88 (his wiring is unmolested original OEM) you can get back to the electrical basics. You're going to need to figure out what function(s) the RED in-line fuse wire & the YELLOW in-line fuse wire are performing. Start labeling your wires &/or create a sketch diagram to follow so you can evaluate what's original OEM and what is not - perhaps then we can determine the purpose of that (+) power bus bar (whether is needed or a different manner of wiring it in). Hunt & peck order at the moment.
If you need any other compartment/wire photos supplied let me know.
I remember in another post that the extra tab on terminal B is a fuse.
In the service manual it states an a/c car requires a different generator and vr. I can look that up too.
Post #27 I identified the fuse you refer to. Thanks for your help, Art - much appreciated! Maybe that's what the RED in-line fuse & wire is on the OP's car?
OK... I figured out the blinkers. There was a wire wrapped up and not connected to the tail lights. With the blinkers on it is flashing the circuit tester bulb. Do I just wire this to the power wire that runs the running and Brake lights?
All the wiring looks good as far as being damaged. The ground from the wiper motor to the fire wall however, does look like it was just slapped over paint. I will clean that up and update you guys. The fuse in the yellow that Vintage Chief was trying to figure out cuts power to the bus bar. Still not sure why its there. It only blows the fuse when the wiper is switched and only has power on the battery side of the fuse box, not both sides. The red inline fuse runs power to the headlight relay's which are fully operable. This fuse has not blown on me. There is a final inline fuse that on a small wire coming off the battery terminal that cuts power to the ignition when removed. Im hoping this ground on the wiper motor fixes the yellow wire fuse and switch shocking me.
OK... I figured out the blinkers. There was a wire wrapped up and not connected to the tail lights. With the blinkers on it is flashing the circuit tester bulb. Do I just wire this to the power wire that runs the running and Brake lights?
No, this is NOT correct. The rear lamps use 1157 bulbs. They have two filaments and a common ground. The ground is through the socket. One wire is for the tail light filament, the other is for the brake/turn filament. Whoever wired this did it incorrectly. The black wire is the tail light circuit. The other wire is supposed to come from the turn signal switch. When the switch is in the straight ahead position, the brake light feed is connected to this filament. When the turn signal switch is in the turn position, the switch disconnects the rear lamp from the brake circuit and connects it to the flasher circuit - on that side only. The other side remains connected to the brake circuit. If you connect the wire at the lamp, then both sides will flash whenever you put on the turn signal to one side. You need to find the wires that are supposed to run from the turn signal switch to the rear lamps (red for the LH and green for the RH) and connect those to the yellow wires coming from each tail light instead of the wire that is there now.
I'll add that the wiring diagram posted above is easier to read when it's not distorted. Try this.
Also, note the tail lights, showing a ground through the socket, not the wires. Note the red wire from the rear body connector to the LH lamp, green to the RH lamp, and black for the tail lights and license plate lamp.
And for reference, here's the dual filament 1157 bulb. Each terminal on the base is connected to one of the wires to the socket. The main body grounds through the socket.
Last edited by joe_padavano; May 10th, 2024 at 01:44 PM.
You need to find the wires that are supposed to run from the turn signal switch to the rear lamps (red for the LH and green for the RH) and connect those to the yellow wires coming from each tail light instead of the wire that is there now.
Thanks Joe P. So if I replace the yellow wire that I have labeled ground (which I now understand is supposed the be the blinker / brake indicator wire) with the wire that i confiremed is the blinker, it may fix it. But it may also disconnect the brake light, depending on how it's wired. Correct?
May 6th, 2024, 07:44 PM
