cogaritis

Hi everyone,

I've been looking for a hobby for a while now and one day the idea of muscle cars popped into my head. I've always liked muscle cars, but I've never _really_ been into cars. I don't know, maybe it's just how I was introduced to cars via friends and such. Anyway, after thinking about it a lot, I really liked the idea of buying a piece and fixing it up. I'm always one for a nice challenge and this sounds like a big one.

As of right now, I know pretty much nothing. I've been looking at late '60s and early '70s cars. I wanted something that you don't see every day. At first I thought of a Chevelle or a Chevelle Malibu (same thing?) - the reason being is because I currently have a 2004 Chevy Malibu Classic (or just Classic). I thought it would be cool to have the same car 30 or so years apart. But then I thought that when you think of muscle car (or when I do), you think of a Chevy or a Ford... or a Dodge I suppose. Then my wife (who is really interested in cars and happy that I'm starting to gain interest in them) suggested a 4-4-2... (is it 442 or 4-4-2 or..?)

I absolutely love the body style of the 1969 Olds 442. It's my favorite of any cars so far. And I haven't heard or seen it before that I'm aware of. I'm sure there are a lot of cars that I'm not aware of, but yea.

So now that I have a good idea of what I would like to research, here I am. I would like to learn how to do as much as possible. My first ideal project would be to find a junker and fix it up completely stock. I have a good idea that parts are very hard to come by, so I don't have a problem if replicas are the SAME parts, just newer or built with better material, etc.

Anyway, that's a little about me.. Oh! I guess I should say my name is Dustin and I'm 24... I live in Arizona which is good for cars I guess - no humidity for rust... I'm sure there are lots of other problems though!

Take it easy,
Dustin

P.S. Thanks for the admin who activated my account. It was a pita trying to figure out how to post, but I guess the persistent people are the ones who might stick around!

cogaritis

Oh, after reading I wanted to clarify some things:
- I'm interested in learning how things work
- I'm interested in building things
- I'm NOT interested in illegal racing or racing for a hobby, but I want a nice, potentially fast car that's respectable
- I think I like the idea of restoring cars BETTER than.. I don't know.. going fast?

K!

Dustin

Jamesbo

Welcome aboard

69's Are the best. When my friend on the rainy West coast wakes up from his nap [he's kinda ole ya know] He'll go crazy with another 69 lover on board.


Ask away and good luck

cogaritis

Thank you, sir!

By the way, I love the car in your sig picture!

Jamesbo

This guy calls me "Sir"

That's the kind of respect I need

citcapp

Welcome to the site Dustin. I just woke up from my nap in the good ole rainy west coast and noticed that you have been talking to Jamsbo he is my senior mentor. The 69's are ok I guess, just a little slow compared to my old 57. Quiet now Jamsbo just went to sleep at his key board, happens all of the time.

This is a great site for information and you will be able to get lots of help from the 69 group. They are a great bunch of guys even though they all have swelled heads from the attention they get.

PS you don't have to call people sir just because they're old

cogaritis

I've never heard of a Super 88 before. It looks very nice, not my taste though. It looks kind of like a Bel Air? My wife likes those... If I'm way off, please smack me around some.

Nice to meet you!

D

citcapp

The cheby bel Air is a poor third cousin to the Olds. But thats ok as long as your into Oldsmobile the year doesn't matter we are all related

derek nesdoly

Good to have you with us Dustin! The oldtimers are the first to respond cause we don't have a life. You are WISE beyond your years in picking out the 69 442 as the most desirable of classic muscle cars!! There are some delusional members here who persist in there committment to alternate Oldsmobiles,but years of sniffing exhaust and having trannies fall on their noggins is likely to blame.Ask a lot of questions...read a lot of posts and threads under the "search" option,and keep coming back to learn how you too can join the 69 442 brotherhood.Very friendly advisors here...heck, they put up with me!.DEREK...69 442 POST CPE.

cogaritis

sweet, I like this place already!

Jamesbo

He called me sir and your Olds a Bel Air.

OOOOOOOOOOOOPS, Now I've got to spend the day cleaning up the coffee I just spit all over the monitor.

Oldsguy

Welcome to CO Dustin. I hope you find your '69 soon.

csstrux

Welcome. there is a wealth of knowledge, and enthusiasm here. Also a fair number of contacts for projects and parts. Hope you find the ideal project soon. I would suggest that you look for something that is in relatively good shape for a first project though. Something that you can enjoy and drive while you are taking on small projects at first. It is easier to keep your enthusiasm up that way, as opposed to some dark dusty shadow looming in the garage for years cause it needed more work than you were ready or able to take on at the time. A reasonably straight, solid runner with faded pain and shabby upholstery would probably be a good place to start for a guy just getting into the hobby. Just my .02. Welcome and good luck.

lshlsh2

Welcome I agree a solid runner would be a good first project. That body style ran from 68 to 72. IMO 68 and 69 the parts are harder to find 71 to 72 easiest. Having had a 68 and now a 71. Real 442 be prepared to open your wallet in any condition. Post your location and take your time. You can look at a lot of junk before you find what your looking for.
Larry

cogaritis

Thanks! Thanks! I have a lot of patience in me, but I do think you have a very valid point. I will definitely keep that in the back of my head while looking for a car. Thanks! As it stands, my ideal car is a '69. I love the front grille (sp?) and the headlight placement versus the '68. I do not like the chrome on the '70s+? Not sure if all of the '70 to '72 has the chrome or not. I believe the '70+ also has a change in the body by the real wheels, kind of like an outdent lol if that makes sense. But hey, this is just from me looking at pictures. I also have no love for convertibles (sorry!). Just not my thing. I really like a hard top. Question for all of you guys out there... What do you have to say about the following car? I don't have any money right now - just bought a house and we're closing soon - but I want to start saving up... I'm thinking around 10k will get me a running car, possibly 15k for a w-30, though I'm not sure of the Ws and 350s and 400s and all that BS right now - LOTS TO LEARN! http://www.autotraderclassics.com/fi...ationId=104583 And while I'm thinking of it, is it REALLY necessary to have a manual transmission to be "respected?" I mean, will people see a bad *** car and then laugh if it's an automatic? I don't really care, I can take a lot, but I want to know the pros and cons of each... MAybe I will start a new thread if I can't find one here. Thanks again for all your help and advice, Dustin

cogaritis

Woops, sorry for the wall of text... I guess I have to put in html to make spaces? Testing... Huh, looks like it... now trying html....



? HMM it works but that's weird... Oh well!

Edit:
I have Javascript disabled so it was my fault... sorry for the off-topic!

Jamesbo

Looks like a Glade Green [57] 69 442 w/ W 42 hood stripes, The very desirable 69 only N 30 Deluxe 3 spoke wheel, a replaced motor, [455] hard to tell from the pic but it could have an N37 tilt steering wheel,needs a little interior work and the glare on the drivers side door pannel makes it look funky. [wrong]

From where I sit, I'd say not a bad car.

BUT I would keep looking and asking owners questions. "Ya gotta kiss alot of frogs to meet a Prince."

Always take a fridge magnet and check for bonbooooooooooo in the usual places [behind both front and rear wheel wells is one of the most likely] If it's a vinyl top car check the edges for rust.

Many of these cars got sideways into non movable objects like trees, utility poles etc. And the standard fix in those days ways Bono. RUST turn any car into a money pit.

Good hunting.

cogaritis

Thanks! If I may ask, what do the N ##s mean? D

Jamesbo

They're options and they're not just N's they go from AA 01 tinted glass to Y 73 Hood paint stripe [actually Y 74 delete paint stripe option]

FYI W 30 is OAI Outside air induction and before I even thought about looking for that rare beast, I'd bone up a good deal. There are many many clones/fakes what ever you want to call them.

cogaritis

I figured they would be a rare find and a nice chunk of cash. I REALLY want something that I will be super proud of and not everyone has. I really don't care if it takes 10 or 15 years to complete the project... At least that's how I feel now! Like I said, lots of patience.. but very eager, too!

Thanks for the info once again.

And another question!

What does it mean when someone says "I have a numbers-matching car"?

D

jaunty75

Wow. Where did you find this woman? I couldn't imagine my wife, darling that she is, knowing a 442 from a potted plant, let alone actually suggesting one to me.

cogaritis

Tell me about it! She also plays video games and likes lizards and snakes and stuff.

Jamesbo

It means the engine,tranny, etc, etc all are origonal to the car and match the Vin. In the case of the Green 442 it would obviously NOT be a matching numbers car because the origional 400 that was standard in a 69 engine was replaced with a 455. [FYI Only the 69 H/O in 69 had a 455]

To some it is the Holly Grail to others not. This is a source of alot of debate. Technically [it's possible] for a brand new car to have blown and engine being unloaded at the dealership, The dealer replace the engine and sell it as a new car and it would not be a matchng numbers. car.

cogaritis

Thanks for the explanation! It would be cool to have a numbers matching car, but I could also see the hell that one would have to go through to find one.. or be extremely lucky, I guess.

Pretty cool!

And I'm pretty sure that I'll never get a H/O... I love them but I know how rare they are just from reading. That's why I like yours so much! Also, the cars look a little Persian from all the gold - LOL! I still love 'em though.

jaunty75

Would it really be that difficult? I would think that, while people might try to fake 442s by cobbling together the various pieces of one and making a clone, and buyers of 442s need to be watchful about this, I would think the average Cutlass would be original. A lot of people like to change engines, but a lot don't, and I would guess that most of the Cutlasses out there still have their original engines. Of course, I could be all wrong on this.

Jamesbo

They're out there.

Like I said,To some it's very important to some not. I try not to slit my wrist over my cars. Everyone of them has a flaw or two.

jaunty75

I saw an article once some years ago on this subject where they interviewed a guy who worked on the assembly line back in the 1960s who was amused by all of the attention to the minutest of details by old car buffs. He was talking about a guy who was so obsessed with his car being original that he objected to the wrong bolts holding the gas tank on or something like that. This former assembly line worker said that, back in the day, they never paid attention to things like that when they were assembling cars. If they were getting near the end of a shift and they were running low on a particular bolt, no one said, "oh, we have to stop the line until we get more of the same bolts." Any worker who shut down a line for something like that would have been fired.

They just sent someone out to the hardware store to buy a box of something that would work and used those instead. So a run of cars would come off the line with gas tank bolts that weren't like the ones on the cars that came off the line earlier in the day. But no one cared. The goal was to get the cars made, not worry about whether bolts matched. He said that other aspects of car assembly were similar.

His main point was that there is no such thing as THE original version of a car if you're talking about getting down to the smallest detail. There could be several original versions. The goal was to make and sell cars, not worry about what collectors might think 30 or 40 years later. The guy who bought a '68 442 new KNEW that his car was all original, even if the gas tank bolts didn't match, and he wouldn't even look at that, anyway. After that first purchase, GM didn't care. They weren't going to get any more money if the car was sold a second time, a third time, etc.

Just remember back to the mid-70s, when Oldsmobile ran short of engines and started putting Chevy engines in Oldsmobiles without telling anyone. It was only when they were found out and got sued that it gained wide notice. So if GM is willing to put non-Olds engines into Oldsmobiles and sell them to unsuspecting customers, how much compunction do you think they would have felt in making lesser changes to cars in the middle of a production run over the years. My guess is zero.

The line worker also said that there was no rhyme or reason as to whether or not the car's build sheet stayed with it under the rear seat or on top of the gas tank or inside one of the doors or not. Again, there was no concern that someone decades later might want to look at such a thing. It was just a matter of whether or not the sheet was left behind. If you find one with your car, great. But if you don't, it doesn't mean anything.

cogaritis

All good, valid points.

Thanks guys.

cogaritis

Actually, I have another question. Is a 442 its own model? Or is it like a Cutlass 442? Or?

I'm still familiarizing myself with all this. Thanks for your patience.

D

wolfman98

I thought I should welcome you to CO as well since you are a potential 69 Olds owner. I would agree with you that the 69 is a nice year for the 442 styling and to find the H/O would be more difficult. I have seen a lot of the 69 442 with the 455 instead of the 400 but it's common for guys to replace the original motor with the 442. Some even try to clone it into an H/O. If you can find one that is original to your area that would be better than say one from the east coast. Mine came from Saskatchewan(mouthfull) and it is dry there on the prairie so the frame was A-1. Something you should look for in a car first.Even if you found a 69 with the 400 it would still have lots of jump.I would worry more about what it would take to turn it into a nice ride. Suprised that you being only 24 are interested in the older muscle cars. most guys your age are into those rice rockets aren't they

jaunty75

Others will have specifics, but, in short, it depends on the year I believe. The "4" "4" and "2" have meant different things over the years, if they've meant anything at all. The 442 began in 1964 as an option package on the Cutlass that gave you 4-bbl carb, 4-speed manual transmission, dual exhaust. Hence the "4-4-2". In later years, when, I believe, a 442 could be had with an automatic transmission, one of the 4's referred to the 400 cubic-inch engine that came with it. In 1964, the engine was the 330 V8.

I believe that the 442 became a model in its own right, rather than a "Cutlass 442", in 1968 and stayed that way for '69, '70, and '71. In '72 it went back to being an option package on the Cutlass. It remained an option package in one form or other through the '70s and into the '80s. Again, I may not have all the dates right, but I do know for sure that the first 442's were in 1964.

cogaritis

Wolfman:
Hi and thanks! Yes, most guys my age that I know of are interested in ricers. I've went through a fair amount of cars already, but now I want an American beast.

I've owned: 1983 Honda Accord, 1987 Honda Accord, 1987 Nissan 300ZX, 1994 Mitsubishi Diamante, and now my 2004 Chevy (Malibu) Classic.

Jaunty:
Thanks for the info. That helps paint a better picture for me.

wmachine

No, an auto in an Olds shouldn't cause laughter. A little history here explains the desirability of 4-speeds.
By the mid-sixties, the musclecar era was ramping up big time. But automatic transmission technology (as far as durability for the high HP engines) was lagging. So until '67 when the Turbo 400 came out, the 4-speed was almost mandatory in the highest of the high performance applications. This wasn't just Olds and GM, but across the board (approximately) with Ford and Chrysler. With the newer automatics being durable and that fact that nobody except Ronnie Sox could shift faster than a properly set up automatic, the automatics became respectable. But the 4-speeds still have a classic lure to them that elevate them to a desirability level unmatched by automatics for cars of that era. I have to confess that I'm big fan. "If you don't have a clutch, you don't have much". There, that should start some flames.

Please check out the Olds Wiki, it can help answer a lot of questions regarding Oldsmobiles.
http://oldsmobilewiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

wmachine

A good woman indeed. One of the best starts one can have with Oldsmobiles!
My wife is one such good woman too. "Back in the days" (looooong before we met), she had a '69 4-speed 442.

wmachine

Your point are well made, except this one is not accurate. These were not undocumented changes. The engines were coded as Chevy or Olds, and I believe even the VINs were different for the different engines.
Yes, they didn't tell the consumers at first, and there were lawsuits, but these were definitely *not* assembly line anomalies.

wmachine

To be more specific, in '64 it was "4 Barrel Carburetor, 4-On-The-Floor, (2) Dual Exhausts".
Changed in '65 to "400 ci V8 engine, 4 Barrel Carburetion, 2 Exhausts"
In subsequent years, Olds did not further officially define the 442 designation, so you can define it as you'd like.

cogaritis

@wmachine

Thanks for all of the great info.

D

Jamesbo

If you're serious, I've got a few extras. Here's one
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-69-442-a.html

You could finish it off as a 69 H/O or return it to a 69 442. Take your choice.

wolfman98

Youv'e got 8 69-442's Can't understand why she would think that's too many and your'e willing to sell one of them.I see why your'e the resident 69-442 expert. I only see 4 listed in your sig line so I did not knowyou had 8 , I bet you got a whole lot of parts too. Where the heck do you keep all of them Is your garage bigger than your house? Maybe that's why she's jealous

Jamesbo

I hide them is 3 different garages and swap them around so "She who must be obeyed" stays confused.

"Is that another 69 442?"

Nah, You don't remember that one? I've had that one for years."

Actually, I'm starting to thin the heard a little. What I really want is a 69 W-30 drop top. Seen any around?