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Seeking Starter Motor Technical Information/ Input
I’m seeking any and all knowledgeable opinions regarding the starter motor installation. As to what I have read, one must adjust the depth of engagement between the pinion and flywheel. The gap has to be set between the starter gear and flywheel gear. flywheel. I believe anywhere between .020" and .060". From the information I obtained.
After 35 years, my starter motor (Original AC-Delco) failed. I have been using a local mechanic for a few years and I allowed him to perform the work. The labor rate was really cheap and the starter motor was as well. After receiving the vehicle back, the starter was malfunctioning. Instead of him ordering the starter, I purchased a remanufactured off Amazon (AC-Delco). He placed that starter in but failed to bolt on the heat shield, leaving a slight metal sound. I returned back for him to install correctly. I asked him if there were any problems installing the heat shield. The mechanic (no longer a friend) said, “Sometimes they fit, sometimes they don’t”. The starter motor was specked out as O.E.M. That starter failed within a year. Needless to say, I will no longer be returning there.
On the third attempt, I used a different mechanic who installed an Optima starter motor (Limited Lifetime Warranty). The work was done properly for as soon as I hit the key to start the ignition, I could immediately tell the starter was installed correctly. He told me that the the depth has to be adjusted, etc. as mentioned in the first paragraph. He further said no shims were required.
1.) Any and all input relating to the above is appreciated.
2.) What is the actual setting of the gears?
3.) Would a starter motor fail if not installed correctly.
* I also noticed that there was a minor oil leak appearing to be coming from the rear main seal. In briefly reading some technical information, the content stated if the starter is not installed correctly, there could be oil dripping from the rear main. Is this true? However, after a week of the starter motor being installed, there is no oil leak or leaks on the garage floor. Have not been under the car yet, but will eventually. All replies are welcome.
By the way, I could not purchase for the price of $89.00 and give to him or he would not do the work. He charged me $160.00 for the starter motor and with labor $307.00. Quite a bit but the work was done right. Your thoughts on this. The first mechanic charged $89.00 for labor and allowed me to get the part after his first starter motor failed. So, double the price but well worth all the aggravation. In addition, I had to have the car towed on a flat bed.
Optima Starter Motor Optima Starter Motor Specifications/Details
The oil leak was fixed while the starter was out just bye tightens the pan bolts maybe. I have a can full of shims but never in my 58 years of Olds Moters using shims NEVER. unlike Chevy they need them all the time to work. you can put a 455 Olds started on a 350 Olds and work just fine but don't put a 360 starter on a 455 the ratings are different and yes, some work but not right. I paid $55 on EBAY for a starter and works just fine.
I don't see a correlation between a starter and a rear main seal leak. One should not effect the other. I've never needed shims on an Olds starter.
Starters today can be hit and miss. These cases/parts have been rebuilt numerous times and are often a assembly of mismatched-cheap-parts. So, due to fatigue and wear the tolerances could stack up leading to ill-fitting assemblies.
As all ways, it's best to have your original starter rebuilt by a local electrical shop that serves you face to face.
I don't see a correlation between a starter and a rear main seal leak. One should not effect the other. I've never needed shims on an Olds starter.
Starters today can be hit and miss. These cases/parts have been rebuilt numerous times and are often a assembly of mismatched-cheap-parts. So, due to fatigue and wear the tolerances could stack up leading to ill-fitting assemblies.
As all ways, it's best to have your original starter rebuilt by a local electrical shop that serves you face to face.
The shops that service electrical components have all but disappeared. I surely would not send it out. Surely the parts are cheap but that is the way it is for everything today: a throw away generation. Yet, the matching of gears are critical which you made no mention. I would believe that not aligning the gears properly would result in premature failure, as stated by the mechanic. I dd read that an improper starter replacement could cause an oil leak at the rear main. I've never heard of that as well and I'm not bothering to research it. The fact is there is 'no' oil leaking at this stage. Thanks very much for the support.
* Lifetime Warranty so I'm pleased with that. Should it fail, I'm only responsible for the labor only. That is the best one can get.
Last edited by synoptic12; May 28th, 2022 at 07:19 PM.
The oil leak was fixed while the starter was out just bye tightens the pan bolts maybe. I have a can full of shims but never in my 58 years of Olds Moters using shims NEVER. unlike Chevy they need them all the time to work. you can put a 455 Olds started on a 350 Olds and work just fine but don't put a 360 starter on a 455 the ratings are different and yes, some work but not right. I paid $55 on EBAY for a starter and works just fine.
the matching of gears is critical which you made no mention. I would believe that not aligning the gears properly would result in premature failure, as stated by the mechanic.
I’m another that has never had to do anything with an Olds starter other than simply bolt it on.
I do not see the failure mechanism.
Gears too tight would result in noise during cranking, starter not disengaging, or if really off the inability of the drive gear to engage with flex plate teeth.
Too loose and the teeth may slip, resulting in wearing down the teeth.
Neither case would result in failure of the electric motor.
Know this about professional auto repair facilities.
They make their money from two sources. They bill you labor for repairing your car.
And they sell parts at a profit.
If you provide your own parts, they will need to charge you more for labor, to make up for the loss of profit on parts.
Otherwise, the job isn't worth their time.
It's kinda like going to the market and buying bacon and eggs, and then taking them to a restaurant .
Then putting them on the counter and saying " here, fix my breakfast ."
Last edited by Charlie Jones; May 28th, 2022 at 04:45 PM.
If you provide your own parts, they will need to charge you more for labor, to make up for the loss of profit on parts.
Otherwise, the job isn't worth their time.
Actually, professional shops won't typically install parts that they don't supply because if there's a problem after the repair, it always turns into a pizzing contest over who's at fault. The shop says it's the customer-supplied parts, the customer says it's the shop. I can't say that I blame them. I've done too many side jobs in my young and stupid days where I fixed the brakes (for example) and two weeks later the customer complains that the muffler fell off.
Actually, professional shops won't typically install parts that they don't supply because if there's a problem after the repair, it always turns into a pizzing contest over who's at fault. The shop says it's the customer-supplied parts, the customer says it's the shop. I can't say that I blame them. I've done too many side jobs in my young and stupid days where I fixed the brakes (for example) and two weeks later the customer complains that the muffler fell off.
Hello Mr. Joe. The part (Starter Motor) I would be providing to him was the same one he installed (As pictured) and purchased at the same place (O'Reilly). I have no qualms for the work was done right. Why can't people at least be honest?
Know this about professional auto repair facilities.
They make their money from two sources. They bill you labor for repairing your car.
And they sell parts at a profit.
If you provide your own parts, they will need to charge you more for labor, to make up for the loss of profit on parts.
Otherwise, the job isn't worth their time.
It's kinda like going to the market and buying bacon and eggs, and then taking them to a restaurant .
Then putting them on the counter and saying " here, fix my breakfast ."
Hello Mr. Joe. The part (Starter Motor) I would be providing to him was the same one he installed (As pictured) and purchased at the same place (O'Reilly). I have no qualms for the work was done right. Why can't people at least be honest?
Let's say you're a mechanic with your own shop. You guarantee your work. A customer hands you a box with a starter. How do you the mechanic know the starter in that box actually came in that box? How do you as the mechanic assume liability for the functionality of a part that you have no history on nor any control over?
And even assuming the part handed to the mechanic is, in fact, as represented, if there is any issue with that part once the car leaves the shop, the shop now has no obligation to make it right. The customer would have to pay the shop to remove the defective part and it would be the customer's responsibility to then get a warranty exchange and pay the shop to install the new one. That's a hassle no shop wants to take on. Sorry, this is business 101.
The only way to measure starter pinion to flexplate clearance, which should be EXACTLY 030"- no ore, no less, is with the transmission removed. If you didn't pay for transmission removal and reinstall action, it was most definitely done incorrectly or not at all. They lied; sue the bastids!!!!!!!
Your car used a 5 MT starter. That design was probably the worst design Delco ever made. I have serious doubts it was original after 35 years.
Spected out by who?
Installing a starter would have nothing to do with a rear main oil leak.
The starter housing came in an American size and a metric size. The mounting holes were either 3/8 inch or 10 MM. The bolt size was also different to match the housings. This alone could explain the metalic sound. Not having a heat shield would not cause a metalic sound.
The 5MT starter also had various field case lengths. This is probably why the mechanic said sometimes they fit and sometimes they don't. See post 3
Last edited by stellar; May 29th, 2022 at 05:59 AM.
Your doubts and assertions are purely "False". The starter was 'Original' and had not been replaced since "purchasing" new > 1986. I still maintain the "Window Sticker".
I believe you now, but when considering the failure rate of the 5MT starters it was hard to imagine. Feel free to disreguard the rest of my post as well and please don't research my knowledge of starters You probably know more about them than I do and you have embarassed me enough already. I'm sorry I doubted a 35 year old 5mt starter was original. I hope you are happy now that you have trashed me and the mechanic that installed your supplied mismatched starter.
May 28th, 2022, 08:17 AM
Seeking Starter Motor Technical Information/ Input
