bob9822

I am a newby to this forum and have a 63 Starfire convertible. The car is about 99% original and replacing the engine harmonic balancer will make it a decent runner. I would like to make it a daily runner and take highway trips. Two issues - reliability and economy. Having 127K miles, the engine runs good, the tranny has a hesitation going into fourth gear, and the rear end has a howl. Options are: change the trans to an overdrive type, change the rear gears to higher ratio, change out the engine and tranny to an LS2 with a 4L70E. It seems the car will never have a value greater than about $25 to $30K in stock condition. Don't know what value it may have with updated engine and trans. But, I think it will be very reliable and deliver about 20 to 22 MPG vs the currrent 14 MPG. Anybody have experience with any of the proposed solutions?

rocketraider

Get an OD transmission and keep your Starfire 394 and 3.42 gearing. Ross Racing Engines in Ohio can fix you up with a modern THM.

If you do an LS swap on that car far as I'm concerned you've reduced its value to scrap price. Others will disagree. I'm one of those people who believes that if you want a modern high-tech car go buy one.

oldcutlass

Welcome to the site, post some pictures of your car when you get a chance. There are many directions you can take your car, all it takes is time and money. Resale price is over rated and most in the hobby build out of love.

firefrost gold

If you ask the guys who have done the ls swap they say they love them . A well done swap will hold its value just as a well running original engine will. If your car was at a show sitting next to the same year same shape olds with a done right conversion what one would you have bought ?

cherokeepeople

i was kindof at this crossroad when i went thru my 64 starfire conv about 25 yrs ago.motor was locked up when i got it and i thought about a 455 th400 swap.then it was like yeah it would be nice but then just how many miles do i plan on racking up.ended up running across a 64 super 88 with a great running 394 AND a perfect rustfree back bumper ,which i had been looking for for about 10 yrs.the engine wasn't original but it was a 394 which only an olds expert would be able to tell apart anyway so i went that route.
unless your gonna drive it 30k a year i would care less about the cost of gas.what gets me is these people that buy diesel pickups for the milage and power then don't haul more then groceries or pull anything.that extra 5 to 8k buys alot of gas.

MDchanic

If you're considering an engine and transmission swap, then be sure to understand that they never put a "classic" big block or small block Olds, or any sort of a Chebby engine, in a '63 Olds fullsize, so there is no "bolt-in" engine swap.

The 394 has a "bellhousing" as part of its casting, so if you want to use that block with a later transmission, you need to use one that has been specially cut down and modified to fit.

Also, they call your transmission a "Slim Jim" for a reason: it is narrower than most automatics, and if you want to swap in a TH400, or a newer 4-speed auto, you have to remove the transmission hump and rebuild the floor to make room for it. It can be a LOT of work (there are threads on here about it), which is fine for the die-hard customizer, who enjoys creating a car that is exactly what he wants, but will never pay you back at resale time for the time and effort you put into it.

It's your call, but, as others have said, for a car that's driven a few thousand miles a year, it's a lot cheaper to buy more gas (and get your balancer reconditioned) than it is to make major custom modifications, for which there is no aftermarket to help you (as there is with the '64-'72 A-bodies).

- Eric

joe_padavano

These cars were daily drivers when new. The argument that one needs a new Chebby motor to be reliable is just an excuse. The whole point of having a car like this is to have something different, not a belly-button motor. Sorry, but I just can't get on the LS bandwagon.

Run to Rund

The 394 was an excellent engine, and so was the differential in your car. Fix or keep them in good shape, in my opinion. The Slim Jim trans doesn't have as good a reputation, but if rebuilt well, it works and will last. As noted above, engine or trans swaps on your year range Olds are quite involved and expensive; then you end up with a custom setup that may or may not be easier to keep reliable.

joe_padavano

One of the rationales frequently used to justify a swap like this is that the swap is "cheaper" than rebuilding the original motor. The flaw in that logic is that this usually entails just comparing the cost of the LS motor and not the nickel and dime costs for all the little things you need to make it work. That stuff adds up fast, not to mention the cost of your time and gas chasing down all these little parts. If you must do this swap, it's your car, but do it because you want a belly-button motor, not because it's "cheaper" or "more reliable". As for the gas savings, you'll need to drive the car for a hundred thousand miles to recoup the costs in gas savings.

twintracks

If you modify it, you will likely never get back the money you spend on it. And it becomes "dated" to the year the mods are done. Remember fuzzy dashes, and **** carpet? How about mini trucks and billet everything?
99% original, and 50 years old deserves to stay all original. Then, it's "dated" to 1963 as it should be.
I would fix the issues and drive it.
I had a '64 Dynamic 88 that I drove to Florida from northern Michigan and back twice, 1,400 miles each way. That car always hesitated going into high gear as well. If you are worried about mileage, pump up the tires, and keep your foot out of it. Or, there are 2 barrel manifolds out there for the 394.
I keep mine all original, and yes I still drive them long distances. Oldsmobiles are great highway cars. It's one of the reasons I like them.

70cutty

If you are worried about gas economy, should have bought a Prius.

Tedd Thompson

I'm in the leave it stock group and I hate Slim Jim transmissions. You will never get your money back on a resale of a converted engine transmission swap(probably on a rebuild of the original engine transmission ether). If you figure your time and cost of parts you will find this is a hobby of love and little profit.....Just my humble opinion....Tedd

redoldsman

Unlike Pertronix ignitions, Tedd and I fully agree on this one.

BangScreech4-4-2

Another vote against the LS. Joe's point is well taken. I've had many Oldsmobiles, all of them (except one) with original engine and drivetrain and I'm always amazed at how dead reliable they are. I drove a '65 Dynamic 88 to from Vancouver to San Diego twice, I drove a '64 Cutlass from Vancouver to Calgary several times, and all the cars were used frequently for trips of 300 miles plus. Never had a major issue, unless you count running out of gas that one time ...


You'd be lucky to get this level of reliability out of a swap, with the multitudes of fabrications and adaptations just waiting to bite you in the ***. GM knew what they were doing.

Koda

I am in the do not modify boat. However, if you MUST modify, only do bolt in things and keep the originals. That only negates a little of the value. But, if you start cutting, welding, and you throw away the originals, you kill the value of the car.

Oldskeeper

I just pulled the engine out of my 63 98 custom sport coupe to replace the rear main seal and the front seal.
these engines are built to last so if this starfire were mine I would get the rebuild kit from Edwards and rebuild it, the engine rebuilds are not difficult and the parts are available but not as cheap as a chev. The slim jim tranny when rebuilt with the new clutch plates with the updated materials will last the life of the car.
Leave the LS swap for the guy who has to because he can't find the correct drive line. Trying to install a 455/400 will require major floor work and your console will need to be refitted to the floor. You have a very nice car, 63 Starfire Convertible is worth keeping as close to original as possible. Just my opinion.
Steve