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Recently I've decided the time had come to jump back into the classic car space, and I just completed purchase of a 1978 Olds 98 with the 403 V8 in it. I've got the documentation for it and the transporter should get it here the end of this week or early next week. There's two things I'm looking to do, one is to mechanically get it at least mostly good as new. The car hasn't been driven much for a very, very long time as evidenced by the change your oil by April 2001 sticker, with mileage that it hadn't gotten to so even if something working now I'm not counting on it staying that way for long. The other is rust mitigation and prevention. I've been wanting to learn car repair for a while, but I never had the capability. I've got a friend who can help teach me the mechanical stuff, and the factory service manual is on the way in the mail.
Mechanical side (so far):
I'd like to send in the brake booster & master cylinder to White Post to rebuild them, I've heard good things about that place.
Does anyone have suggestions on where to send in the power steering pump to be rebuilt, or can White Post do that too?
I'm thinking about doing an engine rebuild, and putting in new main & cam bearings, new cam + lifters, and new piston rings. Except a rusted out freeze plug so far it doesn't seem to have any issues, but I'd like to make sure it stays that way so I'm stranded in the middle of nowhere on a road trip, the idea is to roll back the clock and replace things that are prone to mileage and age. Anyone think this is a good idea? If so, are there are good machine shops in the Portland Metro area, preferably southeast or south side that anyone can recommend? I've had problems before with other kinds of shops that, despite getting paid good money just don't really care. It's a far too common mentality, and with an engine rebuild I need to make sure the parts the machine shop does has to be done right.
Body side:
It's got some surface rust. Anyone think this paint job is salvageable, or is a repainting required in the near future? Also, the vinyl top will need to go, so replace it or convert it to a hardtop?
It does have some surface rust elsewhere. I assume I can use CLR for most of that, although the fender might be needing a blowtorch. I do think the body work, particularly the frame, will need a professional touch. Does anyone know any good shops in the Portland area for this? The guys that specialize in classics are booked out for years (and many of them tend to want to take over the project which isn't what's needed). I talked briefly with Sherwood Autobody, are they any good?
So that's what I've got going so far, no doubt I will have many more questions going forward so I appreciate everyone's patience.
I've never heard of White Post restorations before. That doesn't mean they don't provide good service though. You might consider rebuilding the master cylinder yourself. It's not hard to do, especially if you have a friend helping you.
To restore the body I'd enroll in an auto body program at a local community college and paint it yourself. That's how I restored the body on my 71 98.
I've never heard of White Post restorations before. That doesn't mean they don't provide good service though. You might consider rebuilding the master cylinder yourself. It's not hard to do, especially if you have a friend helping you.
To restore the body I'd enroll in an auto body program at a local community college and paint it yourself. That's how I restored the body on my 71 98.
If it's not too much of challenge, yeah I might consider rebuilding it here in the garage.
That's a great idea on the community college, there is one not far from here. I'll look into that option regardless, but do you think the paint can be saved as it is, or is it too far gone?
You can always try to cut the paint with buffing compound and a DA polisher. It's in vouge to have patina now. The rust around the wheel wells probably won't come out completely though unless you grind on it. IMHO, a car can look good with patina, but fauxtina is ridiculous. 🤢
You can always try to cut the paint with buffing compound and a DA polisher. It's in vouge to have patina now. The rust around the wheel wells probably won't come out completely though unless you grind on it. IMHO, a car can look good with patina, but fauxtina is ridiculous. 🤢
I'll give that a shot after I get it here, thanks!
After it's been sitting for several weeks because of traveling and overtime at my day job I finally had a chance to so a little bit with it and get a feel for things.
I'm pretty sure this was a wasp nest of some kind in the door jamb.
The inside was super dirty, like it has been sitting under a tree with the window open for years. There was so much tree debris in there.
Anyone know what that white plastic wire thing goes to? It attaches to something under the front seats.
The front seats were just as bad. I cleaned it all with carpet cleaner but I'll have to hit it again as the can was running out and there wasn't enough left.
This steering wheel is a total disaster though. It's still usable in its current state at least but I'm thinking it needs a professional touch, though it won't be cheap. It's really unfortunate these aren't made anymore......
There was something very, very off about the driver's side seat. The power switch bezel was totally unscrewed from whatever it was supposed to be connected with and it shifted around a fair amount when I sat in it. Have to take a closer look later when I can.
Sadly this is in rough shape and I'm not sure I can fix it myself unless I can re-leather the armrest. The passenger side is cracking as well but not nearly as bad as this. The rear door panels look pretty good.
To stop the leather parts from getting any worse I used Leather New to clean them up a little and also to revitalize the material. I've used it before and it works great, never had an issue. As you can tell by the rag they were sssssooooooo dirty......
First thing I'd do is set up a budget. With what you're describing along with what the pictures show, your plans could easily have you spending considerably more than that car is worth. Late '70s B-body four-door sedans do not have a lot of intrinsic value.
Illumined,
Before moving forward OR deciding to not fix the car, do a complete evaluation of the car. Avoid putting a lot of time, money and effort into e.g., an engine rebuild to later find a bad frame, evaluate the entire picture first and go from there.
First thing I'd do is set up a budget. With what you're describing along with what the pictures show, your plans could easily have you spending considerably more than that car is worth. Late '70s B-body four-door sedans do not have a lot of intrinsic value.
Originally Posted by Tri-Carb
This car has surface rust plus a lot more. Re-sell or part this one. You can find a many in much better condition. You will save money in the end.
Originally Posted by TRFREE
I agree with Tri-Carb. As much as I love the 77-85 B's and 77-84 C's, you just can't save them all.
Originally Posted by Tri-Carb
I think you may find a nightmare around the base of the vinyl top.
I think there's a misunderstanding here. I didn't get this car as some kind of financial investment, this is going to be a driving car that I'm going to fix up and try and make it look as nice as I can afford to over time. I got it to use, not to sit. Based on this use case, you can say the same thing about literally any modern commuter car. Every last one of them loses value over time, especially brand new. The difference is, I'll have a car I actually like driving, plus much more importantly I will have learned valuable new skills that can be applied to keeping it on the road and who knows for what else. We live in an era where a leaky tail light can literally disable your car and cost thousands to fix. Good luck keeping one of those things going, yeah no thanks, those aren't made to be fixed they are made to be thrown away. I have the chance to do a project like this now, which wasn't the case before, so I'm taking the opportunity.
And yes I actually did try finding a 4 door 98 from this generation in better shape but with many those going for $10k+ these days that just didn't pan out. Oh well, now I get to learn derustification too.
Originally Posted by Olds64
That's a good start. Hopefully you get her started and driving before too long.
Thanks! That's what I'm hoping to do after some derustification.
Last edited by illumined; April 1st, 2024 at 03:27 PM.
Reason: Youtube link fail
I think there's a misunderstanding here. I didn't get this car as some kind of financial investment, this is going to be a driving car that I'm going to fix up and try and make it look as nice as I can afford to over time. I got it to use, not to sit....
I'm good too. I stand by my remarks. Best of luck on your project.
Then be consistent and never, ever drive or own any modern car ever again and only drive collectable classics. Those are the only things you won't lose money on.
Anyway, to the project. Powered it up, it stalled after maybe 10 seconds of running (tuning issue most likely). Transmission shifts into reverse and drive ok. All the lights work except the turning signals, power window on the driver door works (the most important). The power seat does work although it has some gearing issues it seems and the power locks were a bit hit as miss. I've seen that before, probably a corroded fuse. Honestly this was better than I expected.
Best of luck, I've taken a couple of projects on like this over the years and it can get expensive, even if you are scouring junk yards every weekend. Unfortunately, the Cash For Clunkers program took most of the good parts cars off of the market.
In the previous post you showed us a pic of the sunbaked steering wheel. You can get kits to restore the steering wheel. Or if you're lazy like me there are covers out there that hide the damage.
Powered it up, it stalled after maybe 10 seconds of running (tuning issue most likely).
Please tell us that you changed that 23 year old oil in the engine first. Unless the engine is making some horrible mechanical noises, it may be drivable as-is once all fluids have been changed and a full tune-up performed.
I will admit, you took on a challenging project here. Good luck getting it road worthy. At least its got a 403.
Personally, I couldn't see spending too much on that project, but to each, his own.
Just chiming in, on "White Post". They are very well known here, for doing brake component restorations. Especially really worn ones that need sleeving for a proper cylinder. But on a 1978. I don't see how it is impossible to find parts for it at Rock Auto, or local NAPA.
Good luck with your project, I’ve seen much worse going down the road, I had a 78 Buick Electra with 240,000 miles on it with doors flapping in the breeze, I would still be diving it if it wasn’t rear ended by some green and purple haired he/she that was texting!
In the previous post you showed us a pic of the sunbaked steering wheel. You can get kits to restore the steering wheel. Or if you're lazy like me there are covers out there that hide the damage.
Those steering wheel covers look very interesting, could go well to stop more problems in the future. The steering wheel plastic I think is too far gone at this point and really needs a recast to fix it right. A friend of mine had done a project like that in graduate school, might be worth trying it to see if we can get it to be "good enough". Anyway, generally the trim is a bit lower on the priority list right now.
Originally Posted by JohnnyBs68S
Please tell us that you changed that 23 year old oil in the engine first. Unless the engine is making some horrible mechanical noises, it may be drivable as-is once all fluids have been changed and a full tune-up performed.
I will admit, you took on a challenging project here. Good luck getting it road worthy. At least its got a 403.
I knew it had been running within the last few years from the previous owner, granted I could have been a bit less cavalier about it but I figured any oil was ok for a short run, it ran maybe 30 seconds total. One of the pulleys is bad so with no active cooling I didn't want to do much with it in the first place. Anyway, the engine needs some work regardless. The timing chain gears are most likely still the originals (plastic teeth) so those have to go, it has a bad freeze plug and it leaks oil like a sieve. I'm planning to try pulling it out tomorrow. One thing I'm not clear on is the attachment points, the service manual just says to attach the engine balancer but not where specifically. I've seen some people do it with the 4 bolts on the intake manifold, is that really doable?
Originally Posted by chopolds
Personally, I couldn't see spending too much on that project, but to each, his own.
Just chiming in, on "White Post". They are very well known here, for doing brake component restorations. Especially really worn ones that need sleeving for a proper cylinder. But on a 1978. I don't see how it is impossible to find parts for it at Rock Auto, or local NAPA.
Good point, I think I'll try a rebuild kit first.
Originally Posted by Bfg
Good luck with your project, I’ve seen much worse going down the road, I had a 78 Buick Electra with 240,000 miles on it with doors flapping in the breeze, I would still be diving it if it wasn’t rear ended by some green and purple haired he/she that was texting!
Ouch. That car probably paid for itself with that kind of mileage. Regular commuter cars universally lose value through depreciation, albeit some faster than others. That's how you lose money on them.
Ok, took a bit longer than I'd hoped because of n00bishness and not realizing that there's certain tools needed that the manual didn't call for to make the job easier (lessons learned for sure), it finally happened.
We have liftoff! Here's a before picture of how dirty this thing really is. And another Since mounting it I've started cleaning it off at least a little. I accidently took off some of the paint but nothing a touch up can't handle. I can get the rest once the valve covers come off to replace the gaskets which are definitely bad. There's actually texts and symbols under the dirt and oil! So far I feel a lot like those Victorian era archeologists uncovering lost treasures in Egypt. "Sirs we've made a grand discovery!" "Corgh Blimey! Call up the Queen's Governor immediately!"
I also drained the oil before pulling it out, it looked really good. No sludge and no worrying shiny bits so far.
Wire brush the base of the distributor/block it's crusty and repeatedly soak the area with penetrating oil. Removing the distributor may be an adventure. Soaking it may prevent breaking it during removal.
Wire brush the base of the distributor/block it's crusty and repeatedly soak the area with penetrating oil. Removing the distributor may be an adventure. Soaking it may prevent breaking it during removal.
What kind of penetrating oil do you suggest, or would just soap and water be sufficient?
Most likely. The acetone is going to evaporate quickly leaving an ATF residue. The acetone more or less operates as the enabler (if you will), providing a rapid release for the ATF to penetrate.
And, you know, I'll simply point out we're talking about removing caked-on, embedded rust (where two metal pieces have broken down) in order to remove a bolt, nut, etc. It's not like we're talking about soaking an aluminum (or other metal bar) for days on end or applying acetone to etch a surface. There is nothing wrong with using an acid to remove rust in order to relieve the tension between two pieces of rusted metal - whatever they are. Again, the object is to separate the two pieces of metal - any acid will effectively release rust. Acedic acid (vinegar) works well depending on the amount of rust, depth and time allowed to soak. A more significant (stronger) acid will also work - HCl (Muriatic Acid). When the rust has dissolved, simply wash with water or some other solvent WD40, vegetable oil, engine oil, bicarbonate of soda - whatever.
Continuing to prep to remove the frame for sandblasting, don't have pics right now. I was going to have it powdercoated to rust proof the frame, the problem is I started asking how they coat the inside of the frame rails.....turns out they don't really which makes it worthless. Sure it would look nice on the outside, on the inside there wouldn't be anything to protect it making it just as prone to rusting as it is now. Since I'm planning on doing annual lanolin undercoating anyway, I think it's just better to stick with that since I can get it into the rails.
Once that's done I'll be circling back around to finish the engine cleanup as has been suggested here (thanks!) and do the work that's needed on it. I'll take it in a few stages, the first of which is to replace the timing chain gear, motor & transmission mounts, oil seals, valve cover gaskets, exhaust manifolds, and freeze plugs (one of them had been leaking). I'd like to order them this week so they're on hand when I revisit the engine. After the engine goes back into the car and connected up, I'll be tuning it, then one at a time putting in a new fuel pump and new distributor.
Here's my parts list so far, I welcome feedback and there's a couple I'm not sure about what to get and navigating quality & fitment can be a minefield:
1.) Cloyes Street Billet 9-3500TX9 (will this work on an Olds v8?)
2.) Proform Freeze Plug Kit.
3.) Valve cover gaskets
4.) I'm looking for high quality distributors that's basically just a newer version of the original, I've seen many that are basically fancy race versions with features I don't need. As this is meant to be in part used on road trips, quality matters more than anything. What are good options? I'll shell out for the racer versions if that's the most reliable but surely there must be more suitable options.
5.) Timing cover gasket.
6.) Mahle rear main seals
7.) What oil seal should I use for the front, or do I need to?
8.) Delphi fuel pump
9.) The Thornton exhaust manifolds look good and I've read good things about the brand. The challenge is that these are meant for dual exhaust, whereas I'm going to be running a stock single exhaust setup. Can they be made to work with the regular exhaust setup? I'm going to be replacing the original manifolds mostly because I don't want to risk gassing myself when going down the road as this is going to be a long term driver. Had that happen once, never again.
10.) Are these motor mounts from Anchor any good?
Also, would now be a good time to replace the crusty old harmonic balancer?
EDIT: I almost forgot it's probably a good time to change out the thermostat too, any suggestions?
Last edited by illumined; April 30th, 2024 at 01:25 PM.
Reason: Forgot something.
Balancer? See if it is at zero with #1 piston at TDC. If yes, don't replace it, if not at zero replace it.
Be glad the frame wasn't powder coated. IMO it would cause more rust than it would prevent on a daily driver. For a show car, a different story...just my $0.03 USD.
Balancer? See if it is at zero with #1 piston at TDC. If yes, don't replace it, if not at zero replace it.
Be glad the frame wasn't powder coated. IMO it would cause more rust than it would prevent on a daily driver. For a show car, a different story...just my $0.03 USD.
Can you suggest any good thermostat brands? I've seen several from Edelbrock, Motorad, and a few others. All I know is avoid AC Delco, their parts are junk in my experience.
I'm surprised powercoating would cause more of a rust issue, why is that?
March 4th, 2024, 05:55 PM
