jaunty75

Not sure if the "dipstick" refers to the car or to me in all this, but here's the story.

Ever since I bought my '67 Delta 88 in June 2009, I've had trouble getting the dipstick, whenever I pull it out to check the oil, to go all the way back in. It always took a bit of jiggling, sometimes a lot of jiggling, but I could usually get it to go those last few inches.

Well, I was checking the oil again today and could not for the life of me get it to go back in, and then it dawned on me. "Maybe this isn't the correct dipstick."

So I get the CSM and look it up. The dipstick measurement from tip to bottom of the handle is supposed to be 18 and 13/32 inches. Well, as Popeye would say, blow me down! Mine is 23 inches long! Good God, I hope I hadn't poked any holes in the bottom of the engine or anything jamming the thing in there!

By the way, when I was able to get it to go all the way and then pull it out to read the oil level, the readings seemed to be correct. Right on the F mark when I refilled it after an oil change. So I never suspected a problem other than maybe a misaligned dipstick tube or something.

Anyway, while I'm sure I can get something generic that will do the job, I would love to have the correct dipstick. Anyone have one?

Thanks.

CRUZN 66

Is there a part number on your oil indicator (dipstick) anywhere?

With the part number, it can be determined if is correct for your application or what else it might fit........

jaunty75

Thanks. I will give it a look and post what I find. I sure hope it's not correct as it sure as heck doesn't fit in there!

jaunty75

OK, the number on the dipstick is 14026166 W.

It also says on it, "Use SF Engine Oil." If I'm not mistaken, they didn't use the "S" designations for oil until later than 1967?

The service manual says to use an oil "intended for use MS." I don't know what "MS" means, and I don't recall seeing that kind of designation on any oil I've purchased in the last 30 years.

According to this page:

http://www.pqiamerica.com/apiserviceclass.htm

if I'm inferring from the chart correctly, SF oil came out in 1980, and it is now considered obsolete, which isn't surprising. However, it suggests that this dipstick is from an early '80s car?

jaunty75

I bought a new, generic dipstick and dutifully set the little adjustable end on it to the correct length (18.40625 inches, which is 18 and 13/32). I inserted it, and it STILL won't go all the way in!

It stops about 1.5 inches short. But that means, of course, that it doesn't reach the oil, so it won't tell me anything.

So I started looking closer at the situation. The engine on this car had been worked on prior to my owning the car, and the heads have been removed at least once as they're now on opposite sides. I'm not sure what all was done to it and why, but when I bought it, the choke linkage on the carburetor had been disassembled (but it would still start pretty easily cold--love those Olds engines!), and it had a Chevy air cleaner on it.

Anyway, in looking closely at the dipstick tube, I noticed really for the first time that it is apparently not original as the end is not even, finished, and rounded as it would have come from the factory but rather looks it was cut to length with a hacksaw by someone who didn't know much about using a hacksaw. It's not very even.

I tried pulling the tube out (I should be able to do that, right?), and I can pull it about 6 inches, but I can't get it all the way out no matter how hard I pull on it without barking a knuckle, even though I can get it to wiggle around quite freely. When I push it steadily and carefully back in, it seems to seat itself comfortably in some slot or hole, but I still can't get the dipstick to go all the way in.

What should the correct length of the dipstick tube be? (I haven't looked through the service manual yet, but I will.) I would like to pull it out, measure it, and, even if it is the correct length, perhaps get a new one that looks better.

Thanks for any help!

CRUZN 66

There were two (2) oil indicators listed for your Delta's 425 engine.....
Part Number 393974 was used if there was no cruise control and/or disc brakes......... 398166 was used with cruise control and/or disc brakes applications.......

As for your part number 14026166, I can't seem to find an application, which could mean it was superceded at some point....... However, the next sequential part number 14026167 is an oil indicator for 1980/1982 305 & 350 engine application (I believe Chevy Van.....since it was listed as light truck (L) and model (G).....)

jaunty75

Interesting. Thank you. I wonder why the difference in dipsticks based on those options. My car does not have cruise control or disk brakes. Maybe those were mounted in such a way that they blocked access to the dipstick and one of a different shape was needed?


As far as the correct application for the dipstick I do have, your guess sounds about right. Based on the "SF" oil designation on it, early 1980s is likely.


Do you have a part number of any info about the dipstick TUBE?

CRUZN 66

Based on what you are saying above.... I would suggest getting a matching indicator and guide from any 400 or 425 (except Toronado)... At least you will have a good chance of knowing the two parts are correct for your engine........

jaunty75

I'd love to. Any idea where?

Jaybird

Jaunty75: I purchased a dipstick and tube from a man in Michigan that manufactures replacements for the 1967 400 ci block. That is the same tube and dipstick that we need for our 1967 425's. This is the dipstick that is in the Fusick catalogue. It's a little less expensive, if you get it at the Oldsmobile Homecoming Show. I didn't. I bought mine online, a couple of weeks earlier and paid big bucks!!!
F.Y.I.

jaunty75

Thanks, but I'm a bit confused. The only dipstick I see I see in either the Fusick big car or Cutlass catalogs is in the Cutlass catalog on page 57. It shows an "engine oil indicator" (what the rest of the world calls a dipstick--dammit!!), part number 419242, which it shows as applicable to the '68-'69 400, and it costs $33.00.

The"engine oil indicator tube" for the '68-'69 400 is part number 401357, and it costs $19.50.

Nothing is shown for the '67 400.



Are these what I want?

ent72olds

Jaunty, I will take a look at mine later and let you know what I find. I'll get the PN off it and some measurements. It will probably just verify what you already know, but maybe something can be discovered?

J-(Chicago)

I have 5 or 6 dipsticks here, All in the 400,000 realm, but possibly the length you need.

copper128

You need a matched pair ("guide" & "indicator", AKA: tube & dipstick) from any 65-67 big block. OE#389375 & 393974, respectively.

Not sure why you can't pull your current tube out. Seems it should already be out if it can be pulled 6" !

jaunty75

I appreciate it. The CSM says that the proper length is 18 and 13/32 inches from the tip to the bottom of the collar below the handle. In other words, that's the length that is inserted into the tube.

jaunty75

Thank you. The length is 18 and 13/32 inches as noted above.

jaunty75

Thank you! So should I assume that what Fusick has that I described above WON'T work? The catalog does say "68-69" 400, not 67.

Effin' tell me about it!

It slides out very freely and then suddenly catches on something, and I can't get it to move any further no matter how hard I pull. The tube passes through a narrow space between the head and the engine, and there must be a collar or something on it that is catching at the point where the space narrows.

I haven't exhausted all means, of course, but this is just suggesting to me again that this is not the original tube and something for some other application was forced in there.

MDchanic

Jaunty, if this is a homemade tube with a hacksawed-off top, for all you know, there is a pair of nuts screwed onto the bottom holding it in the case.

You may need to dig deeper if you're serious about this - hate to give it a good pull and drop something off inside the pan.

- Eric

jaunty75

Yes, but it DOES pull out about 6 inches. So if there is a threaded nut on the end or the other end of the tube is itself threaded, it's certainly no longer attached to anything. I'm just thinking that the end is flared or something like that, and that the flare is just wide enough to catch when pulling it the last little way.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the tube just a press-fit into the engine? Certainly the tubes I've seen pictures of don't look like they have anything special on the end that inserts into the engine.


OK, here's another question that I've always wondered about, and I apologize ahead of time for its potential dumbness.

If the dipstick just passes through the tube into the engine and dips into the oil in the pan, and if the end of the dipstick tube we see when we check the oil does not really seal against the bottom of the dipstick tube flange, then how does the engine develop any oil pressure? If I run the engine with the dipstick removed, why doesn't oil come spewing out of the dipstick tube? Is there some kind of a check valve or flapper or something the tube passes through as it goes into the engine? Is it possible that this valve or flap or whatever it is is stuck shut, and that's why I can't insert the dipstick fully?

jaunty75

OK, here's a tiny further update. I had thought that maybe the end of the tube that sticks in the engine was crimped in some way and preventing the stick from passing through it into the engine. But no. When I have the tube pushed in as far as it will go, and it seems to be comfortably seated and properly positioned like it always has, the stick will not go in all the way, and the length of it in the tube and beyond is about 16.75 inches, which is about 2 inches too short.

When I pull the tube OUT as far is it will go and insert the stick, it will go in further the distance I pulled the tube out, about another 5 inches. So it IS getting past the end of the tube, but it's not going into the engine.

Part of me doesn't actually care if this never gets fixed, as weird as that might sound. The car starts and runs fine, and the oil pressure is just where it should be on the gauge. In the 3+ years I've owned the car, I've never added oil between oil changes. I put only 500 or so miles on the car per year, and I don't change the oil any less often than once per year, so I change it well before the level could drop low enough to be a problem. I keep an eye on what's ending up on the garage floor under the car, and like many cars as old as it is, it has its drips. If I see a sudden increase in the flow, I'll get concerned, but otherwise, I want to just drive it.

I just think that, to ultimately solve this problem would require tearing the engine half apart, and I don't see the need to do that...yet.

Thoughts?


By the way, I changed the oil on it this morning just so I'll know it has a full crankcase.

jaunty75

I just now entered the oil change on my '67 into the database I maintain on the miniature Cray supercomputer I keep under my bed, and I see that the last time I changed the oil was exactly 11 months ago, on 9/16/11. At that time, the mileage was 130,012. Today it was 130,332. So I've put exactly 320 miles on the car in 11 months. That's a bit low, as I think I average more like about 500 miles per year (and, of course, there is another month to go), but this is why I don't worry so much about the oil level getting low enough between oil changes to have to add some, and thus why I am probably not worried enough about an "oil indicator" not working to tear the engine apart trying to fix it.

If I really did follow the sort-of-standard 3,000 miles between oil changes, I would change the oil every six years. I certainly don't want it to be that long between changes.

ent72olds

Just to verify what you said and the CSM says, the length of the stick is 18 13/32.....PN is 393974...not sure if this was born with the car, says "engine 4 qts do not overfill". Has red paint left in one spot. Top of the tube is shaped similar to a "bell or tulip".

Jaybird

Jaunty75: Now that I think of it, the dipstick and tube that I got for my 67 425 was not from Fusick. I can't remember the site that I got it from but it was for a 67 400ci engine. I'll let you know where I got it from as soon as I can remember.

CRUZN 66

If you are referring to the Guide (tube) you presently have, No I didn't try to match up a guide since the indicator part numbers were no where near your application and the guide part numbers may also have been superceded at some point..... Besides, who's to say the guide was even the correct match for that indicator.......

jaunty75

This is certainly the correct length. The four quarts thing is only if you don't replace the filter, otherwise it's five, and I don't know anyone in the last 100 million years who did an oil change on a car but didn't change the filter.

More than the dipstick itself, I'd love to know how long the dipstick TUBE is supposed to be as I'm certain what's in the car now is not what was there originally, although it might very well have been cut to the correct length by whoever installed it. When it's fully seated, it LOOKS very original, so that's why I never suspected anything was wrong until it got to the point these last few days where I can't get the dipstick to fully seat.

Not that this matters as I still haven't been able to pull the tube out, and, like I said above, do I really have to be able to check the oil level the way I drive the car? Life is short. Eat dessert first.

jaunty75

Thanks.


CRUZN 66, I do thank you for your efforts.

ROCKETMAN269V

There are NO dumb questions. The oil pan is only a "sump" to contain the engine's supply of oil. The oil pump draws oil in from the pan and compresses it to create pressure. It is then pumped through the filter and internal passages to the bearings, etc. When it gets to the pushrods, and eventually, the rocker arms, it merely runs off and collects on top of the cylinder heads, where it runs down, by gravity, through (2) oil return holes into the engine block and eventually back to the oil pan. The only "pressure" in the oil pan is "windage" from all the rotating and reciprocating parts and any "blow-by" of combustion that gets by the rings. End of Engines 101 for today.

copper128

Jay, did you buy the reproduction from Walt Vallelunga?

waltvallelunga@yahoo.com

http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/...alt+vallelunga

jaunty75

I figured there had to be some kind of a pressurized portion separate from where the oil is stored and where it's poured into the engine. After all, you can run the engine just fine with the oil fill tube cap removed as well, correct?

Anyway, thank you, and I'll be tuning in for Engines 102 tomorrow!

J-(Chicago)

I have dipstick 386319 here, and it is approx. 18 and 5/8" Let me know if you want it Jaunty75

jaunty75

What do you want for it?

J-(Chicago)

Freebie. Just pay the freight. It's not nice enough to ask money for in my opinion. The collar shroud is missing. just the stick and the hook are left.

jaunty75

Thank you. Maybe I can use the collar on the one I have. PM me your address and the amount for the shipping, and I'll get a check to you.

Jaybird

Copper128: This could be the guy. He is from Michigan.

Here's the Oldsmobile Parts website that I saw the 1967 400ci dipsticks & tubes.

I purchased my dipstick and tube from SuperCars Unlimited! http://www.supercarsunlimited.com/Search.cfm Search: Oil Dipstick

Fits 65-67 400. view photo $22.99 Dipstick Tube

Fits 65-67 400. Correct reproduction of the original. view photo $69.95

As you can see, the correct replacement dipstick is very pricey! You can always just purchase a 1968 Olds 455 dipstick and tube and save some cash.

jaunty75

I paid $6 at Pep Boys for a generic one with an adjustable collar. $70 is a lot of money for something that no one can see except the handle of when you show the car. I can see paying for the tube as that's visible (and much less money!).