Olds1971

I have a 1983 cutlass supreme four dr it has a 3.8 v6 in it. I recently bought a running 350 rocket 2barrel from a 1972 cutlass s. It sat for awhile but was ran every so often. Im building a show car and want this motor in my 83. Its a daily driver and will remain that with the 350. Heres my question... I am redoing this motor and wanna remain stock enternals like pistons ect. but want 350 hp or more. I will do, intake, carb, headers, cam, exhaust and ignition. I dont wanna have to do much work. Is this something thats possible? I know my basics but dont know anything about compression, hoaning, porting or anything like that. I want it easyly done. My cam I want there to be a mild lope to it. And all this on 87/93 pump gas. Can anyone tell me what good externals to use? Or will is this even something plausible? Thank you everyone for helping me out

olds 307 and 403

You will need forged flat top pistons for your goal. Your motor has huge dish pistons. Bigger valves and bowl work with right cam and headers will get you there.

dancutlass

This thread will give you an idea what needs to be done to get 350hp out of it!
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...arts-list.html

MDchanic

No.

- Eric

Olds1971

Thanks for ideas. I didnt know if 350 from a 350 was plausible or not. Also I can get hookman headers. Anyone know if they will fit a cutlass four door? I dont know how much they changed frame work.

Olds1971

Do you get respectable horsepower at any number if you keep it stock and get a good mild cam,intake,carb, headers? I just really want a respectable get up and go to my old cutlass for now. Then save up and really build a motor later

Olds1971

Some pics before and where I stand now.

cutlassefi

Just really build it now. Why do it twice?
Use that 350 crank, stroke it to 3.5, SBC 6.00 aftermarket rods, SBC 400 piston, block will need to be bored for them.
Use the 7a heads with 2.00 intakes and a little bowl work. Paint an RPM intake the same color as the rest and use the Thornton exhaust manifolds or similar. With the right cam and tune it'll make more than 300 and look totally stock.
I'll have a very similar build on the dyno in a few weeks. I'm confident it'll make 300+.

Eightupman

What are Hookman headers? I've heard of Hooker, or Hedman...

Headers are designed to fit in between the frame and the block. What will fit in a 2 door will fit in a 4 door in this case. What will be different is your lenth from the collectors back. Be careful though, I've just installed a set of Flowtech headers in a floor shift car, and there was no clearance to drop the gear all the way into first, manually, without some modifications to the collector bracket.

But as far as the HP you are looking for, there are dozens of combinations and hundreds of opinions, and probably half as many with the real experience. So take ALL of your information and sort through it. Usually the rule of thumb is if more than one person has tried it and it worked well, its plausible. Pay close attention to the guys that actually get thier hands dirty vice the guys that read all day and have built engines on paper.


Now bear in mind, there are a few more things to change going from a 6 to an 8. Motor mounts, wiring (starter is on the opposite side I beleive) fuel lines will need to be moved, you will need a new radiator shroud and top plate for a V-8, new hoses for the radiator. You will have your work cut out for you but the things you will learn along the way are going to stick with you for the next build (if there is one)

Whatever you do, don't half *** it.

John

Olds1971

Money and time is a big thing. My v6 has about seen its last day. A few years back it was rebuilt and the mechanic screwed it up and actually ended up closing up shop. So I decided to rebuild this one myself. I dont wanna bore it and all of that right now because then I would need big pistons and go through all that jaz. If I can use stock enternals and have a good cam,intake,headers ill be happy

MDchanic

Exactly, but with "stock enternals like pistons ect." no way.

By the way, doesn't this (really tiny) picture look like a big block to you?
Maybe it's just the angle.



- Eric

Olds1971

Yeah I been told those 800HP stories with little work thats just ridiculous. There def hooker headers that was my mind bobble there . Even if I dont hit my 300hp mark I want it to alleased sound and run like a champ. You can have stock enternals and run some decent cams,intake, carb and headers right?

Eightupman

Absolutely. The link that was posted is a good baseline to start from. Some of those items can be easily substituted to suit your budget, but all in all those are the items that require replacement for a solid build. I also know that some of those exact items can be found cheaper so shop around. Captjim has built and run his motor so he is a credible source. He's not the ONLY source out there though. I've recently build a nice 403, and working on a 455 now. The 403 I scrimped and paid the price by doing it twice and the do-over hurt the wallet. The 455 I'm not doing twice. Well not PLANNING to.. lol

John

Olds1971

So if I rebuilt my motor all stock and put a intake,cam,carb,headers on it do you think itd be a respectable street car?

Eightupman

In my OPINION, you have to really figure out what you want out of it, compile your parts list, look at your wallet and see where you stand. My advice to you is don't spend a dime until you are 100% sure what you are after. Respectable is in the eye of the beholder. You have a respectable reliability, or respectable run down the track.

Regardless of how you build it, you need to make sure that machine work is done and done well. I've been bit by mmmm uneducated in the ways of Oldsmobiles machine work. You can't build an Olds motor with Chevy data... it just won't work out. DO NOT scrimp on the machine work. oversized rings or bearings will be the same price regardless if its .010 or .020...

Take your time, don't hack anything.

John

DoubleV

What do you consider to be a respectable street car? Some consider 14's very respectable while others think that's way too slow. Depends on what you're really looking for and of course your overall performance depends on your total combo.

IMO, on a 'stockish' 350, an aftermarket intake won't give you very much, an aftermarket carb won't do a thing over a Qjet, the proper cam will wake it up but you need to get the compression up for that, and lastly, headers will help a bit but in my limited experience with them, they aren't the huge power boost I hear others claim them to be BUT they make a bigger difference the more beefier your build is.

So put in some higher compression pistons on an otherwise stock rebuild, then do the other things you mentioned ( minus the aftermarket carb ) and it would be respectable in my book.

Olds1971

So basicly this is what I want. My respectable street car is somthing that sounds really well with a lope, power behind the pedal, and reliable. it doesnt matter the seconds on the strip it prolly wont meet the strip. As far as the carb then.. I have a 650 holly keep it or trash it, and I have a 4 barrel from a 1971 cutlass s. So basicly I need to put compression pistons in headers cam and intake keep a four barrel thats stock on it?? Like I said im new to all this so I dont know how to go about it. Like whats the first steps to take in finding the right combo

Eightupman

RESEARCH! Scrub the forums. Google is your friend to find them. Ask questions. yeah it gets redundant to hear the same old "whats the right cam/carb/intake?" questions, but in this case I'd rather hear the question 100 times than hear, "I tried this and blew it up"

John

Olds1971

Yeah no blowing up would be nice. I was thinking about a 650 holly, 400 cam hydrolic cam, and intake im not sure yet. Either a cutlass 4 barrel intake from like a 71 oe 72 cutlass s for now and get a better one later. I have decided to keep stock pistons, rods ect. And of corse my girl will pur with dual exhaust and I want electic cut outs just for my own personal pleasure.

coppercutlass

Im considering selling my 350 that im in the process of rebuilding rotating assembly is together heads where rebuilt by rocket racing 2 years ago with big valve bowl work and roller tip rockers. The short block is .030 over i have 2 cams that go with it and gaskets all it needs is intake gaskets ad freeze plugs. machining is all done. intake included, pretty much everything. pm me for price.

Olds1971

Does anyone know the compression of a 72 350 rocket with a 2 br? Im pretty sure its 8.5.1 if so whats a good cam to use as far as roller vs hydrolic and whats a good duration. I dont wanna change the compression

cutlassefi

Approx 8.25:1 real world. It's going to to be tough to make it sound anywhere near a hot rod with that low compression.
You'll need to keep the intake duration very conservative in order to retain cylinder pressure.
I'm happy to help but your options are limited. I'd consider a gear change if you're looking for a real boost in performance without changing the insides.

coppercutlass

choices are limted with compression like that . A towing cam would probably be your best bet i ran the comp cams 260 h in a 9 to 1 compression 350 and it ran awesome . Realisticly compression might be under 8.5 to 1 . closer to 8 to 1 they say heads are 64 cc but they are probably closer to 68 , 70 cc range . Milling the heads and decking the block might help bring it up but only so much. You might be better off finding an earlier block with the 14 cc pistons or a 73 and later block with the smaller dish pistons which i think are also 14 cc's. Just throwing some ideas out there.

Olds1971

The more and more I read on here im loosing hope of getting a cam. I really dont have the money to get pistons and dont want to have any machine work done. I have heard 8.5.1 compression cars not olds that have very nice sounding cams. What do they do? And as far as the intake duration whats that?

coppercutlass

They might sound nice but probably run like crap. Check out the comp cams thumper line they offer cams that sound racy but are ment for cars with lower compression etc. etc. I dont know enough on the to tell you how they work but a friend of mine has one in a chevy 350 it runs in the 12's but sounds like a 10 sec car .

Olds1971

FINALLYY copper, you just exactly described what I want. I wont be drag racing its going to be a show car. I want what you described exactly. For this car im ok with all growl no fight lol. Ill build a race car soon enough I have two 71 cutlass s. This is just for a good sound and show.

Olds1971

With a thumper cam I can keep stock internals right? NO milling, shaving, boaring, making bigger, larger anything lol. Just plain stock

coppercutlass

you will have to call comp cams tech line to help you out. They might specify on their web site, when i moved to my new house i lost all my refrence catalogs from all the cam companies . I think my girl thre them out lol. But they should have a cam that will not require alot of work . here is what the 260h comp saounded like with manifolds and thrush turbo mufflers.
here is what it sounded like with headers on my 72 before it went in dads car

Olds1971

Motor wise what was all done to them? Im guesing alot to yours lol

coppercutlass

nope both engines where the sameone i took it out of my car and it went into my dads car . Mine just had headers and an x pipe. In my car it ran 13.86 . That engine was a 73 350 just freshened up stone stock internals. also freshened up where the 72 7a heads using shim gaskets to get the compression around 9 to 1 . I ran and edelbrock performer intake 600 cfm carb. very street friendly. The engine that replaced that one was a 10 to 1 engine that ran low 13's that had re worked heads . the bottom end gave up before i saw it's full potential.

Olds1971

My 72 350 has #7 heads on it you can bump up your compression by using shim gaskets?? That doesnt sound hard at all if so. Id do that lol is 9.1 better cam wise?

coppercutlass

well shim gaskets are factory. But when you freshen up the heads you have them mill them a bit to true up the mating surface so it bumps it up a bit. Most replacement gaskets are .040 using shim gaskets will maintain stock compression. The 73 350 has smaller dished pistons and using a smaller chamber head like the 72 bumps compression. the 73 350 has smalle dishes but bigger chambers if i remember correctly . So mixing the 72 heads and 73 block with slight milling and a shim gasket i got 9 to 1 compression.

this is what my 10 to 1 engine sounded like

Olds1971

If you ran a 13.86 quarter what is that 1/8 mile? Thats what we have around here unfortuatlly.

Olds1971

What did you have to do to get it to 10.1?

Olds1971

Do you know any good stock 350 motors with a thumpr cam with a good lope? Video wise?

coppercutlass

dunno 8th mile conversion. But to get 10 to 1 on the faster engine that ran 13.3's not the 13.86 combo. The heads where milled .024 and i used flat top pistons along with running bigger valves. the valves always take up a little volume so it takes up cc space . I could have run faster than 13.3's but carb and convertor limited what i could do along with the short block giving up. I would worry about making the car have more pep on the street. Do a nice rear gear converter maybe a shift kit. Then do the engine right the first time and have it all. i skimped on my bottom end and it only lasted one year.

Olds1971

I have a shift kit with more clutch packs already with the v6(350 turbo trans). It barks tires in second gear everytime. As far as doing it all right the first time what do you mean as far as that goes?

coppercutlass

Do a proper rebuild. I spent all my money on my heads. Scrambled to put my short block together with used 40 year old flat tops. And zero machining on it. I just polished the crank with crocus cloth and leather laces and used a 3 stone hone on the block. I constantly beat the tar out of it and it finally gave up. This new rebuild I'm doing started life a budget build but it turned into a proper rebuild that saw machining from a machine shop etc. Don't just do a cam so It sounds good. Build a nice engine that will sound and run good. This engine has taken me almost a year to build but it will be well worth it. Right now I'm just driving around with a 307.

Olds1971

It will be rebuilt just with all original parts I dont have the extra money to throw on machine work and my poor v6 is about toast. My v6 is a all original motor and then had a crank put in, the guy that done it didnt do a good job at all. Now leaks horribly and burning all over the exhaust manifold ect.

coppercutlass

There is a guy on here selling a 455 in the chicago area that runs. A cam alone will run more than half of what he wants. Pm him. His name is 1001coins. Maybe that's an option. You can run a nice bbo while you rebuild the killer sounding running 350 you want. Also the is a guy f-85 on here always selling good running engine pm him he might have something. A simple re ring freshen up with a cam and parts will run over 700.