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Looks like you're running into all the same issues as me......the wiring diagram for the '66 Toronado is wildly inaccurate. The relay is on the front fender by the horn relay, if you haven't found it yet.
It's amazing how there are even conflicting diagrams (as I've shown above) as well as inaccurate color schematics to really muck up the waters. This shouldn't be that hard - but then again, where's the fun without the challenge?
It's amazing how there are even conflicting diagrams (as I've shown above) as well as inaccurate color schematics to really muck up the waters. This shouldn't be that hard - but then again, where's the fun without the challenge?
Between myself, you, and Mike, we're going to have most of it sorted out by the end of the year.
I measured 2.66, 2.65, 2.64 ohms. I was surprised it was that close.
Originally Posted by mike 66 toro
From his measurements the resistor itself sounds fine.
He still should have HI speed available, even if the resistor module were a random ball of wires shoved into a potato. Assuming said potato isn't a perfect short to ground. However, once you're on HI, the potato is removed from the circuit because of the double pole relay.
I'm not certain I'm in agreement w/ you regarding "his measurements the resistor itself sounds fine". IMO, there should exist a difference in resistance between each of the terminals & there is none.
I remain suspicious about the resistor & it is possible the resistor is a short to ground. He does not have HI speed available.
I'm not certain I'm in agreement w/ you regarding "his measurements the resistor itself sounds fine". IMO, there should exist a difference in resistance between each of the terminals & there is none.
I remain suspicious about the resistor & it is possible the resistor is a short to ground. He does not have HI speed available.
I think that little booger is the issue. Since these things are only held together with pinch clamps and not solder, I'm going to try and get that little piece off later and replace it with just a copper wire to test the resistance at that time. I have to believe I will see a bigger difference in the resistance from each coil then.
HI bypasses the resistor. Perhaps both circuits have an issue. Unless his wiring is very very weird, the resistor has no bearing on HI.
I'm going on the resistance measurements reported by bob.
If all of the terminals on the resistor were dead shorts, every speed would sound like HI.
It literally makes no difference what those resistances are, so long as they are small values which Bob has said they are. I've repaired blower circuits on a dozen cars, and doubt this one is breaking the laws of physics.
If all the terminals on the fuse were wide open, except the heat fuse (which bob said is 0 ohms, so that's a short as it should be), then HI would work.
There remains a problem in the HI circuit.
👇👇👇👇
In Bob's car with the double-throw relay, THAT part must work, or you'll get no speeds.
Check the relay for proper function and that it's getting power and that all connections are made.
Happy thanksgiving all! 🦃🦃🦃🦃
Last edited by mike 66 toro; November 23rd, 2023 at 08:54 AM.
HI bypasses the resistor. Perhaps both circuits have an issue. Unless his wiring is very very weird, the resistor has no bearing on HI.
If all of the terminals on the resistor were dead shorts, every speed would be HI. It literally makes no difference what those resistances are, so long as they are small values which Bob has confirmed. I've repaired blower circuits on a dozen cars, and doubt this one is breaking the laws of physics.
If all the terminals on the fuse were wide open, except the heat fuse (which bob said is 0 ohms, so that's a short as it should be), then HI would work.
There remains a problem in the HI circuit.
In Bob's car with the double-throw relay, THAT part must work, or you'll get no speeds.
Check the relay for proper function and that it's getting power..
I'll double check everything today. As it was the other day, the power coming in on the purple wire from the resistor was 10V and the power coming out of the relay purple wire going to the motor was 9V. The motor never flinched. When jumping the motor wire to the 30A fuse next to the relay, it goes full speed. I'll test and retest and post up what I find later. It seems if I'm even getting low voltage out of the relay that SOMETHING should happen. SO the bypass power wire for HI is the black/orange wire that feeds to the far side of the relay, and the rest of the power for the lower speeds comes in on the purple wire from the resistor. Then it all feeds to the blower through the center purple wire out to the blower.
First, my multimeter batteries pooped out. I'm wondering if some of the screwy readings over the past couple days have been because of that... I took out the blower resistor and noted the wire coil contact points were corroded pretty badly, so I spent some time cleaning everything up. Checked the resistance and it was astronomical - like not even making sense. So I did a simple continuity test - and no current is flowing from the triple plug posts to the purple wire post that goes to the relay. So for SURE that little in line resistor is the stopping point for voltage in the circuit. Then I tested the "bypass" circuit that sends power straight to the relay for the HI setting, and the power at the relay end of the wire was 11.5V. Testing the output purple wire post to the battery shows 0V to the blower motor. So BOTH the resistor and the relay are bad in my situation. It would be a lot easier to replace the inline resistor if I knew what I needed to buy. I can't imagine anyone has a blower motor resistor schematic anywhere...? Suggestions?
I can't imagine anyone has a blower motor resistor schematic anywhere...? Suggestions?
Bob - Can't help w/ a blower motor resistor schematic & I'm not full-on buying in as to "which" resistor is the "correct" resistor for your vehicle, anyways (just to be honest). Appears nearly a coin toss determining which resistor is applicable to your car.
It appears we've won the TRIFECTA today. There are now three threads all dealing with/related to blower motor circuits.
no current is flowing from the triple plug posts to the purple wire post that goes to the relay.
Ok now we're getting somewhere. If you have no flow to the purple wire from any of the other three, then your overtemperature fuse is blown. That's the one thing that does not look like the others on the resistor module. This would prevent all speeds below high from working.
Originally Posted by BSiegPaint
I can't imagine anyone has a blower motor resistor schematic anywhere...? Suggestions?
I should have that and more details for you tonight, unless I slip back into a food coma.
Ok now we're getting somewhere. If you have no flow to the purple wire from any of the other three, then your overtemperature fuse is blown. That's the one thing that does not look like the others on the resistor module. This would prevent all speeds below high from working.
YES, that is IT. I confirmed that with the multimeter. I have a friend who has a bunch of auto parts in his collection, including a number of heater boxes. I'm going to visit his place tomorrow and see if I can find one of these little things. If there is anything more up to date that I can use, I'm all ears. I searched for a long time online and there are still various resistors that use this fuse. I'd hate to spend $20 on a resistor that I only need a 50 cent fuse from, however. And again, my relay isn't working either, as no power is coming out from the center prong to the motor. At least these issues are confirmed and I have a direction for repair...
I should have that and more details for you tonight, unless I slip back into a food coma.
No rush - we're all drifting in and out of consciousness. And tomorrow is insanity shopping day.
These little fuses are all over Amazon - I just don't know which is which
Last edited by BSiegPaint; November 23rd, 2023 at 06:38 PM.
We need to do some testing on the relay. Are there numbers on the bottom where the connectors attach? I think we also need to check if the connectors on relay are in their right places, unless they're attached to one another - I can't tell.
Some tests to isolate the relay:
Relay UNPLUGGED:
Unplug purple from resistor.
Check ohms that one purple goes to fan (you'll see what looks like 2 ohms or so if you measure from fan purple to ground - thats the fan motor winding). Maybe label that wire fan for now.
Check continuity that other purple goes to resistor.
Measure V at the thick black-with-red. Should be 12V.
Measure V at thinner black with orange. Should be 12V when the fan switch is on HI.
It appears the relay mounting tab must be grounded. Check continuity to ground.
Note: MADE SOME EDITS, in case you're reading in real time.
Last edited by mike 66 toro; November 23rd, 2023 at 07:20 PM.
We need to do some testing on the relay. Are there numbers on the bottom where the connectors attach? I think we also need to check if the connectors on relay are in their right places, unless they're attached to one another - I can't tell.
You have the wires to the relay labeled correctly from what I have seen, The left purple and black/red wires are in a double connector and those wires are pretty stiff. There is almost no chance these are reversed. The purple wire from the center that goes to the motor is a single Packard connector, as is the black/orange wire on the right. With power coming in from the black/orange and the purple, there is no power out of the center purple to the blower motor. The resistances you show between terminals on the resistor are very close to what I can measure as well, other than the R1, since the fuse is bad.
Some tests to isolate the relay:
Relay UNPLUGGED:
Unplug purple from resistor.
Check ohms that one purple goes to fan (you'll see what looks like 2 ohms or so if you measure from fan purple to ground - thats the fan motor winding).
Check continuity that other purple goes to resistor.
Measure V at the thick black-with-red. Should be 12V.
Measure V at thinner black with orange. Should be 12V when the fan switch is on HI.
It appears the relay mounting tab must be grounded. Check continuity to ground.
I can't get power to the resistor purple wire until the resistor is repaired, so understanding if the low speeds of the fan are supported by the relay will be delayed - but we already know the hi speed doesn't work.
The resistor is out of the car since it needs repair.
Ohms on purple wire is 2.3
Continuity of purple wire to resistor is good.
V at black/red is 11.8
V at black/orange is 11
When power is applied to black/orange, there is no power at the purple wire to motor
This particular relay is brand new. I'll open it up tomorrow and see what's to be seen. I did just what you're showing to the original relay, and it didn't change anything, so I bought new. I had a bum horn relay brand new out of the box, so nothing says this new one isn't the same way. For whatever reason, HI power doesn't come out. And we can't test low until I fix the resistor.
With 12V to the black/orange, the black/red and the purple out to the blower motor have continuity.
I'm perplexed, because you said you have continuity showing, and yet the 12V (which you said is present on the thick black/red wire) is not making it to the purple wire which goes to the blower?
How can it be that we have both a connection and not a connection? Did I misread?
I'm perplexed, because you said you have continuity showing, and yet the 12V (which you said is present on the thick black/red wire) is not making it to the purple wire which goes to the blower?
When the 12V HI power is present at the black/orange post, there is continuity between the black/red wire post and the center purple wire post. But there is no power measured at the center purple wire post.
When the 12V HI power is present at the black/orange post, there is continuity between the black/red wire post and the center purple wire post. But there is no power measured at the center purple wire post.
There's 12V at the black/red wire, correct? I believe you said there is but I have to ask again, since there is "continuity" between black/red and the center purple wire post but no 12V measured there. It would seem we have and don't have continuity... ?
There's 12V at the black/red wire, correct? I believe you said there is but I have to ask again, since the "continuity" between black/red and the center purple wire post but no 12V measured there.
When the car is running, the black/red gets power from the alternator directly through the 30A fuse on the inner fender. I really don't understand this particular connection.
You see where I'm going with this though, right? Here's the data we have collected. Correct me if I've misunderstood...
1) You get power at thick black/red with ignition key on.
2) You observed continuity between the relay posts for black/red and blower-purple, when fan switch is on HI and ignition key is on.
3) Upon plugging in the purples and black/red wire to the relay, the continuity is seemingly "gone" since there's no 12V coming out the blower-purple, with key on and fan set to HI.
You see where I'm going with this though, right? Here's the data we have collected. Correct me if I've misunderstood...
1) You get power at thick black/red with ignition key on. Yes, but we didn't test anything with black/red power on
2) You observed continuity between the relay posts for black/red and blower-purple, when fan switch is on HI and ignition key is on. Yes, when power was supplied to the black/orange wire post.
3) Upon plugging in the purples and black/red wire to the relay, the continuity is seemingly "gone" since there's no 12V coming out the blower-purple, with key on and fan set to HI. Yes, when black/red and purple are attached, the black/orange is attached, and switch is set to HI, there is no power detected at the blower motor out purple wire post.
3) Upon plugging in the purples and black/red wire to the relay, the continuity is seemingly "gone" since there's no 12V coming out the blower-purple, with key on and fan set to HI. Yes, when black/red and purple are attached, the black/orange is attached, and switch is set to HI, there is no power detected at the blower motor out purple wire post.
Based on all the observations you supplied, with the engine running, the blower should work on HI since (1) you said black/red has power when engine is running and (2) you said there's continuity between black/red and blower-purple when black-orange is powered, and (3) black-orange is powered when fan is set to HI which you said is the case in post 55. Start car, plug everything in, set fan to HI. What happens? No blower? Test for 12V at black/red. Test for 12V at black/orange. Moved to later msg.
Last edited by mike 66 toro; November 23rd, 2023 at 08:46 PM.
Start car, plug everything in, set fan to HI. No blower?
Test for 12V at black/red.
Test for 12V at black/orange.
Unplug purples and black/red. Test for continuity between black/red relay terminal and purple-blower relay terminal.
Start car, plug everything in, set fan to HI. No blower?
Test for 12V at black/red.
Test for 12V at black/orange.
Unplug purples and black/red. Test for continuity between black/red relay terminal and purple-blower relay terminal.
Gotta wait for the morning on this one, I'm afraid. Too many sleeping to fire up the beast! Will do it first thing.
Do you have a picture of the other side of this part? Link to this part online? We can, meanwhile, map wire colors to this thing since exact replacement seems ... rare.
There are dozens and dozens of these similar parts on eBay and Amazon. I was either going to grab a coil or a thermal fuse off one and attach it to my current one. There are many with three coils and some with two coils and a thermal fuse. Just the wrong base shape or size. I have no idea if this one fits - it just seems to have the same base shape as the OEM version.
Sorry, made a big edit on post 77 and we crossed in the mail.
All good So the only issue is we have no idea if this fits the same size opening, though it appears that it might. I'm going to try and repair the existing one before ordering new and replacing the wire end connectors on the harness to fit.
November 23rd, 2023, 05:17 AM
