bluecab

I was putting in a patch panel the other day and found that there was a bunch of lead in the area.
I know that lead was used for repairs, but I was kind of surprised at the amount of lead there was in this area from the factory( rear fender corner, 66 Toro)
Anybody here had this problem?
Do you melt out all the lead with a torch before welding in patches?

Professur

You'll get a dozen answers. All different, and all as right. Personally, I want it outta there. There are modern products that are just as good. I get it just hot enough to soften, and try to avoid it going full liquid ... you definitely don't want it getting hot enough to vaporize .. that would be bad.

jaunty75

Whenever I find it, I get it out.

brddg

Well you will not be able to weld with lead in the area, it will melt at a far lower temperature and be a hindrance. A hand held propane or mapp gas torch can be used to heat the lead and use a wire brush to remove it. Brush away from you only unless you enjoy getting burned in which case have a ball. Don't try to fool yourself into thinking you can melt the lead and reuse it because it ain't gonna happen. There are excellent body fillers out there let the cost be your guide, the expensive ones last much longer are lighter and sand far easier. The lead available today doesn't compare to what we could get years ago plus it's expensive. However, it will be a superior product wherever you can use it and some areas like roof to quarter seams demand it. Good luck.

oldsguybry

How would you rate Evercoat High Strand Fiberglass Filler topped off with the Lightweight auto body filler made by Evercoat to I believe . I used this one some holes on my car and was wondering how it would hold up .

coppercutlass

I did all metal filler which is "metal reinforced filler" looks silver . I used that on my seams where the roof meets the quarters. The all metal and fiberglass fillers wont shrink up like plastic fillers. There will always be a level of shrink to any filler. You have metal that shrinks and expands at a different rate than the fillers do. Same goes for welding. When you weld sheet metal you have the weld which is actually stronger than the sheet metal that expands and contracts different. Now I have never seen my seams at the quarters shrink but when filling in an area that deep you want a product with really good hold out or solid content so you don't see halo lines down the road.


Now for cost The cheapest and best filler I have ever used is the evercoat z grip one of my favorites to stock in my materials in the garage. For fiberglass I use short strand "kitty hair" from evercoat becasuse im not plugging up holes and it sands easier. I think USC is the only company that makes all metal.

oldolds88

i know what it is. i hired in at fisher body in 76, started in the body shop. when the body got damaged in process, if it couldnt be bumped out or changed out, it was leaded in. we couldnt use filler as it would pop out in the oven when the paint was baked.

oldolds88

be sure you wear dust mask as minimum protection if youre sanding it or where it has been. let us know whats under the lead. im curious.

Bernhard

You do not want to be sanding/grinding lead filler unless you like to have lead everywhere. Melting it out is the way to go wear a respirator and have good ventilation as it will off gas when you melt it out.

coppercutlass

@oldolds88 at what temp did they cure the paint ? We cure paint at 175 sometimes 185.

oldolds88

their laquer paint was cured at around 300 degrees.not sure what the base/clear was,bu thinking it was about the same. when they came out of the ovens and thru the cooling tunnel,youo still couldnt touch them very long. we used to put a metal rack with 5 lbs of potatoes in the end of the oven and cook them for lunch.

Professur

Where else would you hear that? Only here

oldolds88

you mean the potato part?

coppercutlass

I Think that goes with out saying lol.

69442C

Evercoat makes a "metal" filler called Metal 2 Metal. Same as All Metal.

http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=37

Brian

coppercutlass

I completly forgot about that.

oldsguybry

Hi Brian , Why in gods name didn't I just use that ? I didn't even realize that existed until now .... but in all seriousness , I would just be covering up areas on my car that need a professionals touch , like I was already doing . I'm hoping for a miracle , but in the end I'm going to sell her . I just hope I don't get dragged through the coals like I did when I bought the car .

Killian_Mörder

oldsguybry

How long does this " metal to metal " generally last in comparison to the fiberglass filler ? Would I be able to cover a hole that's as big as the one on my front fender ( 2" x 6" )? Would I still need something welded behind the hole to support this metal filler ? The sheet metal work that needs to be done on my car is going to cost WAY to much for my pockets , and I figure I would still need a donor car for the dash rust problem I have . I'm not sure how much that would cost to get the dash welded / fixed , but if that's the only area I have to get done professionally for the most part , I may be able to get the other areas done myself . I just don't want to ruin a decent paint job 5yrs down the road because it's all coming apart on me .

coppercutlass

If you are going that route fiberglass cloth it then. Filling holes that big take a lot of filler. Glass cloth it then fill it. I would go to local body shop and ask for scrap sheet metal offer em a few bucks. Metal is cents on the pound so offering them 5 bucks for 2 useable old door skins like I did on my patch work might just be your ticket.

oldsguybry

Man your killing me . I'm so hungry right now .

oldsguybry

It's the cost of having someone weld it in for me that's the problem . I don't know anyone who has exp. welding on cars , and all the body shops I called had unbelievable prices .


I currently have all the holes except for the dash filled with the fiberglass filler , and topped off with the finishing filler . I'm not sure how long that would actually last though .

coppercutlass

How bout panel bond or industrial liquid nails. I would do that over filling gapping holes. Buy some flanging pliers from eastwod for 25 bucks and some adhesive for under 50 bucks and you are set.

brddg

You might instead consider using metal bond if your going to patch an area that big. As long as you can get a good 36 or 40 grit cut on the inside of the panel where the patch will overlap. Welding clamps are the way to go while this stuff is drying but you could drill holes and screw the patches in then fill the holes with the same product after it's dry. The number of clamps and the different jaw sizes to get done what you need might be cost prohibitive if your only going to do this a few times. Personally I would avoid glassing in a hole that size. If you must be sure to get well beyond the rust that has penetrated the surface or in the years following that rust will poke it's head around the patch.

oldsguybry

The area in question was sandblasted clean ( fender brace removed ) , and all the real thin metal was removed with my dremel . I guess I got tired of looking at holes on my car , so I affixed a piece of screen on the back side of the fender and then filled it .... like I said , I don't weld so I just used some kind of steel hardening putty from the hardware store to hold the screen in place . I'm really not sure how long that will last though .

oldsguybry

I also put POR15 on the fender and brace in the area that I blasted ( another bad idea maybe ) before I put the screen and filler in there . I don't know how well the putty and filler will stick to the POR15 , but I did at least rough it up before I did the screen and filler deal .

Killian_Mörder

I used to heat up rusted edges with my torch. The metal would pop and shoot sparks in all directions. However, despite those miniature comets burning miniature craters in my hide, the sheetmetal would achieve its original thickness, so that I didn't have to reckon with hidden thin spots. I'd then hammer the edges straight and then grind off the blobs and then hammer it straight again

oldsguybry

That's a good idea , and I'm use to burning and cutting myself so I'll feel right at home .

TK-65

My quarter panels before and after lead. All the major metal work on my car was finished with lead.

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oldsguybry

Wow TK65 , that is incredible work !

coppercutlass

That's purty tk. That's my next step I want to learn for my self is lead work. No one does it anymore and I kinda wanna learn something more old school than the current industry standards.

TK-65

Trust me I had no hand in it, only hand I had was forking over the cash. The guy that did it uses lead in all his projects.

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brddg

That's a great start (Sandblasting), I'm curious how long it will last too. The biggest mistake made is that guys try to remove as little metal as possible thinking it will be easier on them. Not so. When you try to weld near this it will vaporize as the rust really does burn and takes the surrounding thin metal with it. And even if you sandblast, the metal is too thin to take the heat of the weld.

oldsguybry

Good point , on my car the sheet metal has a bunch of craters on it where the fender brace was surrounding the hole . This was the result of blasting all the rust off . It kind of resembles the moon now . I figure the whole area would have to be replaced if I had a patch welded in .





I figure the work I did should hold up as long as I keep the car where I've been storing it . There's no way I'm putting any kind of paint on this car because I'm paranoid that the work I did wont hold up in the long run .

oldsguybry

wow that looks great ! I may just have to look into this and see how much cheaper this route would be ....


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my dash is just a little bit worse then yours was .

oldolds88

doing lead = not cheap. lead nowdays isnt like lead years ago. but is still good to use. ive got about 300 lbs of body lead. check out eastwoods solder kit. patience and safety, you can do it. practice on an old fender or something. i was taught at fisher body,with the line moving. i could help you on line if you need help.

allyolds68

I believe lead was also used in areas that flex. They used lead in the 1/4 to trunk filler joint in convertibles (it was a seam on hardtops). If you use body filler there instead of a flexible filler it ALWAYS cracks. I was pissed that the guy that painted my car took the lead out and put filler in there. It's the only place that's cracked so far.

coppercutlass

Mine has not cracked I used filler. When I crashed my cutlass I was amazed at how many areas I fixed did not break or crack .

oldolds88

correct,from the factory. the body shop that did yours should have done some research. if it was on a factory seam its supposed to be there

coppercutlass

Thanks oldolds88 . I do plan on doing a little lead work in the future. I'm doing the body work on my neighbors' 59 ford f100 ans I kinda wanna try. I have seen the eastwood kit and have been very tempted to do lead work.