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I don’t like wind noise or whistling window seals. I’ve burned a bunch of hours over the past few weeks getting my windows to seal tightly & quietly in my ’66 Starfire. Official recommendations windows and doors for ’66 big cars are found in the Fisher Body Manual, but are not all that helpful.
I’m hoping what I’ve learned might be useful some you who have mid-late 60’s big cars. Adjusting windows is time consuming. There are lots of parts which interact. Also once you’ve got settings you like, the best way to test is to put the door panels all the way back on to see any remaining noise comes from the windows.
These windows require adjustment in 3 dimensions: fore/aft, up/down, in/out. To me, fore/aft means forward or backward on the car - nose to tail if you like. Up/down means vertical movement. Inward/outward means inward toward the seats, or outward toward the door skin. The in/out movement controls tightness of seal agains the rear quarter seal and roof rail seal, but what’s a little complex is the tightness of the window in the up position is influenced by adjusting the lower channel bolts in the opposite direction.
Start by removing the door panel and moisture barrier. I’m using 1/4” closed cell foam as moisture barrier. It’s quieter than factory tar paper which is long gone from my cars anyway. So then you have an undressed door showing all it’s hardware. My ’66 Starfire door looks like this:
'66 Big Car driver door. Use a 7/16"s socket to adjust windows
In this picture I’ve labeled the window adjustment bolts in groups associated with the window parts they affect. Almost all of these screws and bolts are 1/4-20 threads and adjust with a 7/16’s socket, nutdriver, or long socket.
From left to right you have
Rear Channel Bolts
There are 2 on top which are important. These control how far fore/aft and in/out the rear of the window sits in the rear channel. If they’re too far back the window will interfere with rear quarter window & slip out of the front channel. If they’re too far forward the window will be hard to raise & lower. I like to leave them in a line fairly parallel to the top of the door, as viewed from the top, not cocked in or out by much. They are easiest to adjust when the window is down. So you adjust, tighten, then raise the window to its extreme up position. Then look to see if the window is parallel to the rear quarter seal along it’s vertical line and whether the window seals tightly against the quarter and roof rail seals. If the window interferes or really bends the rear quarter seal, you want to move the upper two bolts outward a little and try again. If the window is not sealing tight against the seals in the up position, move the top 2 inward and turn the lower rear channel screw counter clockwise to force the channel bottom out and the upper part of the window in - tighter against the seals. The vertical and horizontal placement of the lower screw also influences how far forward the glass sits in the front channel. You want it forward enough to keep the glass in the front channel though out it’s travel, but not so tight that you’re straining the motor.
Cam Channel Bolts
These help a little but are not a huge deal. Note that the front bolt is in an adjustment channel. Moving the front cam channel bolt down forces the front of the window up just a little. Moving it up lets the top of the front of the window down just a bit. Basically I leave the rear secure, but loose as a pivot point, then start the front bolt in the middle to see if I want the front of the window at the top of it’s travel up or down, relative to the rear.
Door Paddle Bolts
These have no influence on the windows. No adjustment either so they’re pretty easy to deal with: bolt ‘em up tight so they don’t rattle. They can make noise if you’ve lost the spring clips which keep the rod ends in their holes. This is a good time to confirm both clips are there on the paddle mechanism and on the door lock itself. I often give them a quick shot of lithium grease to keep things moving smoothly.
Window Regulator Bolts
These 4 retain the motor & regulator assembly to the door. If your riveted plastic rollers are in good shape and the motor works leave the regulator alone. If not, use the window switch to put the window about half way up or higher, remove the bolts and spin the regulator assembly and motor out through the rear large void steel arm first, motor second. SAFETY NOTE: unless the window regulator is at its most upper position, there is energy in the spring which can injure you. DO NOT remove the motor from the regulator unless you have the motor at the upper most extreme of its travel. You can also stick a bolt 3/8’s-16 bolt through the regulator if you align the regulator holes to secure it. Be very, very careful. A loaded spring is nothing to fool with.
Vent Window Bolts
There are 3 pieces of hardware here. The bolt in the top corner needs a 1/2” socket, the other two 1/4-20 screws (like most all others) needing a 7/16’s socket or nutdriver. The top one screws into pot metal so be careful of stripping it from over torquing. This bolt controls the up/down and fore/aft location of the lower front vent window corner against the A pillar, so this has to be as close to right as you can get it. You’re looking for this to close enough to the A pillar that it seals tightly, but doesn’t cause the door to not close. If you can get that corner one right, use the other 2 screws to get a consistent vertical line all the way up the vent window making it parallel and tight along the length of the A pillar. Like in the rear channel, the in/out position of lower screw influences how the tight the top of the window sits against the roof rail rubber. The fore/aft position of the lower screw influences how far back the front channel sits on the window.
Jobs to do Before You Start Adjusting
Wrestling with worn and dirty parts makes adjusting harder. I ran the adjustment screws & nuts through a 1/4-20 tap & die to clean up the threads. I ran the screws down just far enough to clean up the previous-setting ranges. I left some surface rust on the parts since I wanted a reminder of where they were previously set for in/out positioning. Check out and replace any plastic riveted rollers that look bad, or grease up your good ones. If you put in new rollers, take care to place them in the right direction. I wasted a few rivets by drilling out the old ones and getting the direction wrong. You may want to replace the front window fuzzy. The vent window needs to come out to get the front fuzzy placed correctly. You may want to completely remove the rear channel and replace the mohair channel fuzzy fabric. I redid mine with 2” wide fuzzy velcro glued in place. I think I have another post on that using 3m Adhesive Remover. Grease all the tracks with Silicone Grease per Joe P’s advice. If you pull the regulator and motor to replace some rollers don’t be surprise to find some play in the regulator after 50 years.If you get this deep in, vacuum or blow out the bottom of the door and grease up your door lock parts too.
Glass Bolt Sandwich & Channel adjustment screws
The top short bolt sandwiches the glass between some insulating plastic and the rubber washer see here. Don’t tighten beyond 5 ft-lbs. You can center the bolts in their holds outside the car as a starting point, slip the window in place (without the front and rear limiters) and snug them up where you like as part of the process.
Typical GM Mid-60's window hardware
Process
I’m not sure what the official order of adjusting these is. I adjusted my rear quarter windows first, then got the vent window big bolt about right against the A pillar. From there I kept iterating on the front channel to get it parallel to the A pillar, and tight to the roof rail, but not so tight that it caused problems with closing. Next I tried to get the rear channel to snug the window into the front channel by adjusting the top 2 rear channel bolts. You can tell it’s right when it’s all the way up and the upper front corner sits snugly in the front fuzzy channel liner. If the lowest 2 bolts are too far apart, the window may want to drop out of the front channel when lowered. If so, nudge the lowest ventipane bolt aft and nudge the lowest rear channel bolt forward to close up the gap when the window is down. If the window in the all-the-way up position is correct at the rear, but too high or low at the top front of the window, that’s the time to use the front cam channel bolt. As a final step (or last resort) the holes in the window glass allow some movement of the glass itself on the steel mechanism, you can get maybe a 1/4” of up/down and forward/aft movement out of them if needed, but the max torque on these sensitive bolts is 5 ft-lbs. I use a nut driver on them with healthy fear of shattering.
Finishing up
Once you’ve got the vent window parallel the A pillar, the rear vertical edge of the front window parallel to the rear quarter seal and the top of the glass snug up into (and pressing into) the roof rail, it’s time to tighten everything up. Check the 1/2 bolt in the upper corner and all those 7/16’s nuts. I think there are 21 in total. If forgot my window stop one time and it created a rattle which made me to all the way back in after buttoning the door panel back on.
Just finished up the advanced course in '66 big car window adjustment. Convertibles are harder than hardtops.
I spent a day or 2 on my '66 98 convertible windows at the tail end of a project which started with new door hinges, continued to convertible top adjustments and finishing up with adjusting windows into doors, quarters and top. There's a lot of room for movement and adjustment of windows so I wanted to do them last.
This time around, since I had realigned the doors and the top, I started with placement of the vent window panes. My theory was I couldn't move the windshield, so I get the vent windows right first so I coud eventually zero in on the doors after the rear windows.
I started by putting new seals in between the vent window frames and windshield. These seals on both sides. Typical Olds 88/98 vent window to windshield rubber seal. Eventually GM eliminated vent windows to reduce noise.
I did not glue the new seals in place as I'd done before so I could preserve my ability to move them around later if needed. Once the seals are glued in, you cant readjust the locating screws beneath the rubber.
I used a 3/16's thick piece of plastic to nudge the seal channel outwards while I snugged down the screws that hold it in place. The gapper looks like this and I sorted of shoved the 3/16's edge up between the channel and the windshield to push outward: To create a consistent gap, use a consistent thickness edge. Black is a 3/16" gap stick, white is 1/4".
The tricky part of the vent windows is to get them tight enough to be quiet, but loose enough so they don't impede door closing. On top of that you're looking for what I call a consistent "seal crush" or "seal pressure" all along the seam between the vent frame and rubber seal.
Here's a GM photo annotated with the names of the big car (88, 98, Starfire) major door parts, I've added a few labels GM put in other photos just to have it all in 1 place: Typical GM B and C body 2 door front door hardware. Applies to 65-70 hardtops and convertibles alike.
This time I started with the Ventilator Frame Bolt. It's just about the only hardware on the door that doesn't need a 7/16's. It needs a 1/2" socket. The bolt screws into diecast chrome, so my driver's side was stripped out. Lucky there is room behind for a nut & washer.
Philosophically I've arrived at the idea that if you've pulled a bunch of parts out of the door and defaults are out the window, a good place to start is with most hardware set in the middle of it's travel. Generally I worked from each fastener's middle setting in the direction I wanted to influence trying to avoid extremes. My thinking is that if extremes are needed it's probably a mistake in somewhere else.
To move the vent window around, you may need to remove the Ventilator Frame Screws. Mine weren't all there, so it wasn't a problem for me, but it's part of the design and it's kind of hidden, so they're tricky. The one on the outside of the vent window is well hidden. It also holds the stainless steel outer trim tight to the top of the door. Once those screws are out, you can work with the Ventilator Frame Bolt, Ventilator Frame Adjusting Stud and Division Channel Adjusting stud.
I got the bolt located forward enough to snug up against the new seal and a little more than finger tight. Then I started playing around with front ventilator adjusting stud looking for a consistent crush or consistent parallel line between the vent window and windshield. I finished up with division channel stud. The division channel is tricky since it controls in/out pressure of the top of the vent window as well as the fore/aft channel for the driver door glass to travel in. Too far forward and the glass can drop out of the channel.
The in/out adjustment of the vent window studs isn't bad since the vent window top sets a baseline for how much seal pressure the door window will have against the roof rail. This is a good time to say their motion is inverse -- tightening the screw pulls the bottom of the vent in; hence it pulls the top of the vent out from the seals. I.e. to make the seal tigher up top, you want to loosen the adjustment screw. I hope that makes sense. The same principle applies later to the Run Channel adjusting stud and to the rear quarter lower studs too, so it's a good one to get straight.
I redid a couple of window roller rivets along the way, so I had to pull the window motor. Just a quick aside to say there's not much to get wrong with pulling the motor. 3 out of 4 bolts have no adjustment at all so just snug it up and you're ready to go. That and the Remote Control (aka door paddle) Bolts are probably the easiest things in the doors.
Once I got a consistent crush and gap on the vent window frame, I moved on the the rear quarter windows with intent to return to the driver and passenger door glass as the final step since they have a lot of range of adjustment. See the next post for rear quarter windows.
Once the convertible top had been readjusted, that more or less required the rear quarter windows to be readjusted to fit snugly. Since the quarters can't move, but the top can, it seemed smart to adjust the top before the quarter windows, since the windows needed to fit tightly into a top that was placed correctly.
I have a little tweak on mine courtesy of a 2016 mistake I made overtorquing window bolts. My '66 Olds 98 has a '66 Buick Electra 225 left rear quarter window whose lower contour is not quite right. The upper edge of the Buick body panels was different, so my window's lower edge is a bit off. Lesson being, if you do remove glass, don't overtorque those bolts on reinstallation. My wife calls me the "overtorquer"
Look out for these three nuts on each window: Mid 60's GM Big Car windows are usually secured by 3 7/16" nuts. Don't overtorque them.
Here are a photo showing the control hardware and a diagram showing the '66 big car rear window mechanisms. What's here should apply to mid-60's 88's, 98s and Starfire 2 door cars as well as many other GM B & C bodies of the era. GM big car rear window hardware, common to most B & C body convertibles and hardtops from '65-70.
The (A) Front Guide Upper Adjusting Studs & Nuts place the window's position in/out (laterally) and fore/aft in the up position. This is critical since it's the interface to the front door window. You'll see that you can move them forward, back and a little up & down. Neither of my cars have any of these studs below the top vertical slot. Regarding fore/aft movement: there needs to be enough of seal overlap between the front window and the rear window to keep out wind & water, but not have it so tight that they interfere with one another. On top of that the angle of the rear window needs to be inward enough at the top so that the leading edge seal stays on the inside of the door window. Tall order.
Long run, you'll be thinking about the rear window will fit against the front. Raise the front window all the way up to keep an eye on how the two windows look against each other - both fore/aft and in/out. This should reduce the time you spend trying settings -- it will look wrong if it is wrong. Front/rear window interface problems include interference, no window gap, too big of a gap, rear window outboard of front, front window not sealing to rear and inconsistent (not parallel) window gap front/rear.
Here again I started at the "A" position to get the leading upper corner right first. I left the F Front Guide Lower Adjusting Studs & Nuts finger tight during this process again setting them at more or less the middle of their slot and, but snugged a bit inboard of middle to create a good in/out seal against the front door windows.
I set the "C" Rear Guide Studs & Nuts last and more or less left them loose and judged their position by how smoothly the window went up. The other thing I paid attention to here was the in/out settings on the screws to try and get the window to move smoothly and have it be more or less straight front to rear like the rubber it was rolling up into. I don't think I really understand the rear guide well, but it's not really in my way either.
Like the front windows, don't worry about pulling the window motors. Going back in, they bolt right up in no time at all thanks to item E above, Regulator Bolts. Pulling the motor allows you to redo your loose or broken window roller rivets. If your window roller rivets are loose, see my post on redoing them. It's not hard. Once you're this deep in, you might as well replace any rivets that rattle or don't roll smoothly.
Returning to the F Front Guide Lower Adjusting Studs, these have a heavy influence on how the top of the rear window crushes into the roof rail rubber. Loosening these screws creates more inward motion of the top of the window, tightening the screws pulls the top of the window out away from the seal. The hard thing here is you want the top of the rear window lightly compressing the roof line seal, but not so far in that the front window can't seal against the leading edge. And not so far out that the rear rolls up proud (outside) of the front window. Getting to that took time for me.
I decided to place the top, and roof rail rubber before the windows, to set a goal for the windows and their seal crush. You could do it the other way since both parts are slotted i.e. adjustable.
Where I see slots in GM products, I see adjustability. Be ready for tons of trial & error & time here. Walk away if you need to. It's frustrating - each movement affects the others somehow and it's not documented as far as I can find.
After the A & F parts are close and the C parts aren't restraining anything, you'll start to look at the trailing edge of the rear window. The game here is kind of like the vent windows, get a consistent gap and crush against the rear roof rail rubber. But you've just spent hours locking on the positions of all those studs and bolts! Don't worry, you can loosen the glass against the sash channel as shown in the first diagram to adjust the rear angle just right. I may have this out of order, but moving the actually glass forward, back, up, down or angled against the sash is one of my final moves. There ain't much adjustment, maybe 1/8" but it can get you to good gaps & crush.
Where I wound up was good seal crush, fairly parallel gap between front and rear windows, tight rear window seal against the top and smooth window up/down movement. I failed on in/out the rears are a bit too far out at the top. So I have to put the rears up first, then the fronts up after them, or the rears roll up outside the fronts. Small price to pay because the up side is both windows pressing inward for a tight wind & water seal .
The other major cheat I'll cop to willingly is shimming my convertible roof rail rubber down by 1/4" to create a better seal against the window tops. I was hoping I could do away with the shims by replacing door hinges, adjusting the top down & forward, and finishing with the windows, But the car is clearly tighter and quieter with the shims in. They stay for now, though I'd prefer a proper factory solution.
I hope this helps you all, it was quite a time investment, but some, but not all the dividends I'd hoped for. Either was it was fun, which is why I keep these things.
Questions, comments, corrections, suggestions & criticism most welcome!
cf
I was adjusting my ‘66 Starfire hardtop windows and wanted to note something useful. Knowledge would apply to all Mid-60’s GM’s until they took away the vent windows. I’ve scratched a bunch of main windows getting them in & out, so I was trying to put in a new front fuzzy channel without removing the main window. Turns out this is possible.
If it’s just the vent window you need to adjust, or replace the vent window rubber, or replace the front fuzzy channel, you can remove the Ventipane assembly _without_ removing the main drivers or passenger window by removing 7 bolts.
For several years my passenger side front windows have made more noise than I’d like. I knew the roof rail rubber was incorrectly squished since the vent window was slightly out of place. Task of the day was putting in new rubber and adjusting the window to squish into it as designed rather than bend the rubber out of shape and make wind noise. Along the way I found a stripped 5/16”’s 18 bolt at the front right corner, roller rivets just about to break, and a not-quite-broken window switch pigtail. It turned out a new fuzzy channel was in order too since the old one was worn out. Nice to get a bunch of stuff done when you get in there.
I removed and replaced my vent window with the passenger window most of the way up so that the window was spring loaded and mostly secured by the rollers and rear fuzzy channel. It’s a bit tricky getting the vent window assembly back in. I routed the vacuum power door lock hoses and power window wires in front of the vent and then slid the new-fuzzy over the passenger main window and down. I had to move the window up and down a bit to slip vent assembly in, but it worked.
A minor victory, but this may have occurred to some of you as our window fuzzies and vent window rubber wears out, but you don’t want to deal with completely disassembling the door.
Oh — taking it apart is about 15 minutes starting with the door panel. Getting it back together was probably 5-6 hours with detours along the way for the wiring, replacement bolt, new fuzzy channel, and adjustments. Windows take _forever_ to get even close to right.
Here are few pictures with captions on how the window parts affect adjustment. Most of what's here is covered in text above, but I'm hoping these visuals save you all some learning time.
First up are the front windows: My descriptions on how each adjustor affects window positioning. Any errors here are my own.
I hope this picture helps others understand which way to turn the adjustment posts to get to their desired window position: Perhaps this picture saves you a few hundred words. Here's how turns of each post affect window positioning.
Just a few random tips to help either you, or me next time...
And now onto the rear windows:
I recommend starting with the rears, the trailing top edge curve against the body is trickier than the straighter edge of the front windows. Also front windows have more range of movement.
Hopefully this guide will save you an hour or 2 of playing with posts to figure out what they do.
Glenn,
I have an interest in quiet old cars. I like them as good as I can make ‘em, but don’t expect them to be as quiet as modern cars since designs & engineering have evolved.
I’ve had my ‘66 98 convertible since 1982 (Dad bought it new.), so I know it pretty well. One of the reasons I later got a ‘66 Starfire was to see how much better coupes were in 1966 as compared to convertibles.
65’s and 66’s are nearly mechanically identical. Differences were bodywork, trim, the quiet/4jet and those door plunger switches. That’s about it.
If you really want to get into the weeds on optimizing convertible tops & windows to minimize noise for Olds from this era, check this out:
At the bottom of the thread is my latest adventure with quieting the windows over the past weekend. Turns out adjusting the front header seal _rearward (aft)_ gets the top and rails to sit lower and seals up the top to the windshield better than shoving it forward. Great learning for me. I only had it 100% wrong for 20 years or so.
I’m no sage, but here & there I pick up a few pointers and then try to share what might help others.
Chris
I forgot you are Swedish. When I say “into the weeds”, I mean to say “to examine in great (possibly too great) detail”.
I must also apologize for doing my measurements in fractional inches instead of metric. In my defense, GM used fractional inches (and probably didn’t get very precise).
I forgot you are Swedish. When I say “into the weeds”, I mean to say “to examine in great (possibly too great) detail”.
I must also apologize for doing my measurements in fractional inches instead of metric. In my defense, GM used fractional inches (and probably didn’t get very precise).
Wishing you good luck with your AmCar in Sverige.
Chris
Thanks Chris , i have your links saved in my computer no apologize needed , we just translate the numbers into mm . I put on the new convertible boot yesterday and we had a really nice ride in the warm weather.
Thank you for all the information. This is very helpful.
I actually have a 66 Impala convertible and came across your post, while doing an internet search. As you mentioned, the doors/windows are the same as Oldsmobile as shown in your photos.
Regarding the vent window. As you indicate, to allow adjustment, the ventilator frame screws may need to be removed. After you adjusted the vent window, did your ventilator frame screw holes lined up with the door holes? I left my screws loose to allow some movement. However, I didn’t think they should be removed, or they may not line up after adjusting the vent window. I would think the original holes should be used to match the factory alignment.
The original holes should line up to get back to factory alignment. 100% reasonable theory.
But over the past almost 60 years, your hinges have probably worn a bit from use, your door latches probably have too which allows the doors to sag and maybe get a little more difficult than factory to close. Also your door latch posts may have moved around a bit if you've had the car painted or body work done.
All of that assumes a straight frame, no major body damage and other kinds of factory-freshness. Those assumptions are highly questionable 58 years on...
So when you adjust the door hinges to get them straight & true again, or when you replace the hinge pins and get the doors adjusted to the new (ish...) ones, that throws the doors out of alignment just a bit.
This in turn throws the previous window adjustments off just a bit. Which you can use the adjustments listed above to fix, or make a better.
When I say "a bit" I mean off by 1/16" or even 3/32" - movement increments are mostly small on doors and windows. But GM allowed them to move up to maybe 1/4" in various directions. This allowed experts to get the fit just right, but as far as I know those experts are mostly gone now and I've never really found a recipe to recreate the knowledge they had. That's why I wrote the thread above a while back. As bad at this as I am, I'd rather share what I know than leave others in the dark.
My Dad used to say "In the land of the blind, the 1 eyed man is king". I'm the 1 eyed man here. Who needs glasses...
My experience is to get the door and window adjustments as right as possible and _if_ the screws line up, great, put them in. If they don't line up, I just leave them out. When you look at the size/length of the various other window fasteners, the screws begin to seem more like an alignment pin (like an adjustment starting point) than anything that really affects the functioning of the windows.
I must say I'm no expert body man or window aligning guy. There's probably someone out there who knows a lot (a whole lot!) more than me. All these days & weeks later on doors and windows across 2 cars, I'm not completely satisfied, but my standards for seals, water-proofness and silence in a car are heavily influenced by my modern cars. New cars seal ___way__ better than the old ones. Don't use new cars as a standard for old or you'll drive yourself nuts.
You are way to humble and underestimate your expertise. Your detail description and annotated photos are great and extremely helpful. I am sure your guidance will be appreciated by many. The GM manuals are helpful, but focus on correcting minor issues and not a complete reassembly.
You bring up some very good points regarding the age of the car and the door alignment. I had the body shop do the body and paint work and leave the reassembly to me to try to keep the costs down. Since I am definatly a do it your selfer and not an expert, this may have been a mistake.😊 I had asked the body shop to replace the door hinge pins, but they insistent mind were fine. I notice now that I have the windows in the driver door, there is some minor sagging unfortunately.
I still need to finalize the convertible top frame assembly. I rebuilt the frame, but need to finish assembling it. I started on the windows, since I was having some issues with assembling the top frame. However, I know its critical to have the top frame in place to help with adjusting the windows. So, I need to finish the top frame and then start back on the windows. The other challenge is I have power windows. With your information hopefully it will go better then it has.
Thanks so much for responding and again for all the detailed information.
I'd recommend that you get the door hinges confirmed right before proceeding with the doors & windows. Else your window & convertible top roof rail adjustments may turn into an endless exercise of chasing your tail. See my other posts here on C/O on trying to quiet convertible tops and roof rails for details. I chased my tail for at least 30 years before replacing my door hinge pins in 2018 or so. I lived with sagging hinges on my 98 convertible for decades. Only hinge pin replacements made a really big difference.
The way to tell if you need to do your hinges is when you open the driver's door (used most often of both doors) does the top rear corner drop noticeably relative to the front top corner of the rear? Like even just a 1/16"? If you can see it drop at the top rear of the door even just a bit, it's probably hinge time depending on your standards. It can be made right (or right-er) if you're willing to invest the time & energy.
To do the hinge job, you'll have to remove the whole front end - bumper, hood and front fenders to get at the 12 (6 per side) front door body hinge bolts. But at least having the front end off gives you easy access to the next 12 (again 6 per side) front door door-hinge bolts. All 24 of these are adjustable up/down, some in out and so on. There are many dimensions for adjustment. That's where the time cost comes in.
Figure 20-40 hours depending on how you go about it & how bad the problems are. 80% of this time will be learning. 20% will be getting it right. If you repair/replace the hinges, adjust the doors with the window motors, glass & hardware inside the doors to represent the weight-in-use. They don't need to be installed, just put the parts inside for their weight. If you leave out those heavy parts & get the doors just right, they'll probably be not right with the weight of the parts in them...
Look around under my user name for posts on doors, windows & quieting a convertible for more detail. I have a thing about making these ancient cars as quiet as they can be.
With GM big car convertibles of this age ( & maybe Cutlass/442's too)
1) The chassis frame (fully boxed but especially "C" open channel frames) bend just a little going over bumps due to the length/weight of the rear quarters & trunk. They're designed to do this, but it means that the convertible roof rails and their rubber seals move relative to the window tops when the car is in motion. Your roof rail sealing target isn't fixed. It's dynamic, but you can't adjust windows when the vehicle is in motion so it's a lot trial & error. Sagging doors make this trial and error period longer/worse.
2) Since the roof rails of a convertible go up & down, they're 20-40% more difficult to seal watertight and whistle-free than hardtops. Like college vs. high school. But no one runs out to get a hardtop just to learn how to do convertible seals. Just know you're on the steeper of 2 sealing/quieting learning curves. Give yourself time and walk away when you get frustrated. For me the best time to work on these things was 1st thing in the morning when I had 3-5 hours free and could focus. Rushing just leaves you wanting to do it again.
3) The ventipane seals against the windshield, vent windows-to-front windows and rear/front window seals depend upon the doors being right to begin with. GM leaves you all sorts of window slots and screws to make up for alignment problems, but usually when you get into extremes in any of these dimensions, your problem is likely else where.
The top frames are generic for big GM's in these years, but they're not simple in and of themselves. Their hinge holes wear to oversize but oversize bronze bushings are available to fill in out of round or bigger holes from the convertible top specialists in San Gabriel, CA and/or Florida.
Good luck from here, glad to hear another '66 Impala convertible is going back on the road. We like Old's better, but your car is a valued cousin!
Hi Chris,
Yes, I will need to check the doors and see if there is a hinge issue. I am not happy that the body shop didn’t replace the pins before they put the fenders and doors on. The car was a frame off restoration, which I started. I even had new hinge pins, but they didn’t feel they were needed. I should have insisted they replace them. At this point, I would hate to have the front clip and doors removed.
I know what you mean about taking the time and trial and error with the windows. I have spent entire days on each window and have started over several times on each window. I took a break on the windows after my third attempt to get the passenger window roughed in.
I appreciate all the information on the convertible top. I did go through all the hinge points and they actually look in good shape. The main issue was surface rust on the rails. I will take a look at your other posts on tops as I finish assembling the frame.
Thanks so much for all your help. This is very helpful.
PS. My brother is an Old's guy. He has a 70 442 completely restored.
Brian,
Only you can decide whether or not to pull the front end to get at the hinges. If I had freshly painted car, I probably wouldn’t pull the front end either — too much risk of screwing up expensive paint & body for a minor gain on door gaps & noise reduction. Bad trade.
If that’s the way you go, no judgment from me. Screwing up good body & paint work for perfect door gaps is well beyond where I aim. GM aimed at “good enough”, I sort of do too. These aren’t seven-figure Ferraris. As an example, factory fender gaps on ‘67 Firebirds are terrible. Much better on Olds where GM delivered 3/16” gaps for extra $$ at the time.
Given that you’re leaving the hinges alone, I’d use the adjustability GM built into the Venti-panes, Front Windows & Rear Windows to make up for shortcomings in the doors. The convertible roof rails can also be shimmed down with extra rubber (1” wide x 3/4” thick”) between the factory seals & the steel rails to force a tighter seal-to-window fit if you want/need. If my experience is any guide, you have about an 80% chance of making up for door misalignments in the window seals by adjusting the windows.
This is the 2nd best solution. But if your water, noise and wind standards are reasonable, you may well wind up happy. Most of the time, convertible top & windows will be down. How they perform when windows are up is a lesser issue. Getting this stuff perfect is really to make _you_ happy, not really your family & friends who will just be happy to ride in an old car.
If I had a freshly painted GM B or C body, first I’d get the rear windows as well-adjusted as I could. Once the top is up and latched, you can’t move the rear quarter windows much and maintain a consistent seal. Front windows and ventipanes have a little more adjustability than the rears, so get the rears as right as you can 1st. Then move forward - adjust the front windows to the (theoretically correct) rears, then adjust the ventipanes to the fronts. But you may wind up with a ventipane to windshield gap…
The whole window & top from windshield to back edge of the rear windows is a system. You’ll have to optimize among all the elements - top position, windows, seals, angles, parallel-ness & window-to-seal pressures. Practically, this means you can’t take any adjustments for granted. Make & date adjustment marks for each element when you think you have it right, then when you add new elements, you can decide to do previous adjustments over, or work to what you’ve already set.
Blue tape for notes to yourself about dates and thinking on adjustments on parts is a good way to remember why you did what you did when you get back to it 5 weeks later. Then remove the blue tape when you think you’ve got the adjustment right.
The main idea here is prepare to iterate - i.e. take a lot of time & tries to get it as good as you can. And _don’t_ use modern cars as a comparative standard - not fair, they’re just better.
Hope that helps a little, there’s much to say here. Scan my previous posts and you’ll pick up what I’ve done.
I hope you get where you want to go faster than I did. Try to enjoy the process. If it gets frustrating, remember it’s an hobby, exit the garage and grab a beverage or take a walk. You’ll come back fresh & with new ideas about solutions most of the time.
Hi Chris,
Yes, at this point I am figuring its best to live with the doors as is. As you said, its freshly painted and it was expensive. I also have a number of years invested in reassembling the car. The body shop did the body work and paint, but I am trying to do everything else.
The passenger door with the window hardware and glass in seems to have good alignment and the driver’s door appears to be minor. As you suggested, I have been using tape to mark alignments that seem close. I focused on getting the vent windows aligned with the windshield first. However, I was leaving the ventilator frame screws in place loose. Doing this required me to force the vent frame bolt as far as I could to the top of the door hole to obtain an equal distance along the windshield a-frame. Removing the ventilator screws should help with this issue.
One other issue I noticed with top, before I took it apart. I marked the location of the all the adjustable bolts where the top frame attaches to the rear quarter bracket. I noticed now the passenger side is located different from the driver’s side. This is probably due to the top being realigned based on changes in the widows and or doors over the years. As you suggested, I will read through all your posts.
Thank you again for your quick responses and help!!!
Per,
Welcome to C/O. For some reason your new profile cannot accept private messages from me.
If you are comfortable, would you please post your '66 Caddy questions here so we can share your questions and anything I might be able to offer in help here publicly?
Pictures are most welcome here, these guys _love_ pictures. Plus your questions in the private message to me are common problems. I'd like to put my responses here where others can benefit too.
October 30th, 2019, 11:37 AM
no apologize needed , we just translate the numbers into mm 
. I put on the new convertible boot yesterday and we had a really nice ride in the warm weather. 
