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So I finally got the under hood electrical issues fixed and finished many little repairs over the long weekend, as I get this car streetable again. I got it started, and so I could test the brakes and other items, thought I would run it around the block. I backed it out of the garage, and made the hard crank to the right to get the car going straight out of my driveway. This isn't easy - there is no power steering and the car has monster fat tires on it. As I was pulling the steering wheel I heard a "CLUNK" from the front end and the wheel went out of alignment (it was perfectly centered before). I went ahead and eased out of the driveway and around the block, and while the car still tracks straight, the steering wheel is now almost 90 degrees turned to the left as I go straight. Lots of "bounce" to the wheel left and right with no reaction from the front end.
Nothing is obvious from checking things out visually from the top. The rag joint is intact. What should I be checking first? And how? Thanks for any guidance. I haven't been able to get the car on the street long enough to get license plates on it, so running it to a shop isn't the best idea yet. I'm looking at a tow unless there is something I can repair myself.
The steering gear can't "slip a cog" unless the gears look like nubs. More likely is that you broke the torsion bar in the input shaft, or the rag joint. Both of these have "fail safe" features that preclude total loss of steering control in the event of a failure, but there will be slop. The rag joint will be obvious. The torsion bar is inside the steering box. This is what determines how much "power" you have in your power steering.
Did you do any steering column work? Only thing I can think of is the splines between the column and steering gearbox either stripped or jumped. However unless the retaining bolt is missing, I don’t think the shafts can turn that far independently of each other
I’d definitely give the suspense on a through inspection, something is definitely wrong.
The steering gear can't "slip a cog" unless the gears look like nubs. More likely is that you broke the torsion bar in the input shaft, or the rag joint. Both of these have "fail safe" features that preclude total loss of steering control in the event of a failure, but there will be slop. The rag joint will be obvious. The torsion bar is inside the steering box. This is what determines how much "power" you have in your power steering.
Thanks, Joe - I knew my description was technically incorrect, but it was the best way I could describe what happened... I'm assuming that this shaft is the same in both power and non-power boxes. So if I have the steering wheel turned while I'm looking at the steering box, would I see the center shaft turn without moving anything else? Or will I need to disconnect the rag joint...?
Did you do any steering column work? Only thing I can think of is the splines between the column and steering gearbox either stripped or jumped. However unless the retaining bolt is missing, I don’t think the shafts can turn that far independently of each other
I’d definitely give the suspense on a through inspection, something is definitely wrong.
No steering column work, but this is not the original column to the car. I changed out the key cylinder as well as the tilt and blinker arms, but that's it.
Thanks, Joe - I knew my description was technically incorrect, but it was the best way I could describe what happened... I'm assuming that this shaft is the same in both power and non-power boxes. So if I have the steering wheel turned while I'm looking at the steering box, would I see the center shaft turn without moving anything else? Or will I need to disconnect the rag joint...?
The torsion bar is only used in power boxes. It operates the control valve that routes the PS fluid to one end of the rack piston or the other, depending on which way you are turning. You can see the end of the torsion bar with the rag joint removed, but that end is fixed to the splines on the input shaft. If it breaks internally, the outer sleeve of the input shaft has a "sloppy" set of stops that allow the bar to twist in normal operation but will eventually connect hard to the rest of the box shaft if the torsion bar breaks. You can's see this without taking the box apart. On the other hand, if the torsion bar is broken, you should be able to twist the input shaft right and left some amount before the internal stops contact and the pitman arm moves.
The torsion bar is only used in power boxes. It operates the control valve that routes the PS fluid to one end of the rack piston or the other, depending on which way you are turning. You can see the end of the torsion bar with the rag joint removed, but that end is fixed to the splines on the input shaft. If it breaks internally, the outer sleeve of the input shaft has a "sloppy" set of stops that allow the bar to twist in normal operation but will eventually connect hard to the rest of the box shaft if the torsion bar breaks. You can's see this without taking the box apart. On the other hand, if the torsion bar is broken, you should be able to twist the input shaft right and left some amount before the internal stops contact and the pitman arm moves.
I don't have power steering, which was the reason for applying so much force when I was turning the wheel and heard the "clunk". I will also see what amount of play I have in the wheel when I get back to the car this afternoon. Maybe that will help shed some light on what happened.
I don't have power steering, which was the reason for applying so much force when I was turning the wheel and heard the "clunk". I will also see what amount of play I have in the wheel when I get back to the car this afternoon. Maybe that will help shed some light on what happened.
Oh, well, demonstrating once again when you ***-U-ME.
I hate to say it, but if you are sure the problem isn't in the steering shaft or column, it's probably time to pull the box apart. The Saginaw manual box is pretty easy to rebuild. Here are photos of the process.
I would first make sure that it isn't something easy like the clamp bolt came loose at the input shaft, however.
The clamp bolt will be the first thing to check - but I hate to say out loud that it doesn't look terribly hard to take this thing apart. What a great series of pics on how to do it!! Looks like the next project is on the schedule... after checking everything thoroughly first.... THANK YOU for your insight and help again
As a follow up, I got the original box out of the car and there wasn't a drop of grease in it - completely dry and freewheeling, with at least a half turn of play before engaging the pitman arm. Got a rebuilt from Lares for now, installed it, and found out how off the old box had been. I was REALLY surprised that the tie rod adjustment made such a QUICK difference in the direction of the wheels. Initially, with everything lined up on the pitman arm and the rag joint, the steering wheel was 90 degrees turned to the left. It only took 1-3/4 turns of the adjustment sleeve to get everything back in alignment. Now I'm back to where I consider the car roadworthy again, and hopefully this week I can get it titled and tagged and on the streets again. And the original box is going for a restoration, if it can be saved.
June 2nd, 2021, 08:30 AM
I'm assuming that this shaft is the same in both power and non-power boxes. So if I have the steering wheel turned while I'm looking at the steering box, would I see the center shaft turn without moving anything else? Or will I need to disconnect the rag joint...?
