thegrantler

I just bought a pontiac firebird with a 307. I put a holley carb on and it would start and run. I had it running and it started spitting gas out the carb and caught fire and i had to dump a bunch of water to put it out. Only damaged some wiring and the distributor cap, so i replaced the wires, cap and coil and ran a positive wire to the cap for spark. It has spark on all cylinders, seems to have good compression and i cant get it to start with starting fluid. Any ideas?

Olds64

Does it buck or snort at least with starting fluid?

Vintage Chief

If you literally dumped water down the carburetor - that water is still inside the intake manifold and most likely every single cylinder. You need to remove every spark plug, clean & dry every spark plug (or install new spark plugs) & clean/dry out the intake manifold & every cylinder probably with compressed air and allowing it to air dry for several days.

Sugar Bear

Is there a reasonable chance water got into the float bowl through a vent?

Vintage Chief

I'd suggest better than a reasonable chance.

Vintage Chief

STRONG SUGGESTION: If there's a reasonable chance it's still going to spit gas out the carb - DO NOT use H2O. Have a proper Class B extinguisher nearby. At a minimum a box of baking soda.

Sugar Bear

Was it still running when the water was dumped in the intake? If yes, the next step is a compression test.

thegrantler

No it was not running and I already took the plugs out and extracted the water I just forgot to mention it in the post. With starting fluid it shoots some fire from the exhaust manifold but doesn't seem to try to actually start.

Sugar Bear

Still do a compression test if you can get a gauge.

Since the wires were replaced, confirm #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, lift the distributor cap to confirm #1 plug wire aligns with ignition rotor, reinstall distributor cap and double check the firing order. Remember Olds distributors turn CCW.

thegrantler

I felt it with my finger it felt strong, however i set the motor around 20 btdc according to the tab on thw front, and the distributor was pointing to cylinder 8. Nothing mechanical was changed so this doesn't make sense to me

oldcutlass

Sounds like your timing is way off.

Sugar Bear

Sounds like the wires are out of "clock position" on the cap. Either re-clock the wires on the distributor cap OR rotate the distributor like you are setting the timing until #1 wire aligns with the rotor.

cjsdad

Did you replace the wires in the correct order? Remember, Olds is still 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2, but counter clockwise.

no1oldsfan

Dumping water down the carburetor is huge. That can be the root of so many issues. Especially depending on how much water you dumped in there. Yikes.

Olds64

Since it is a 307 I @$$ume it's an HEI distributor. Did you remove the ignition module from the distributor for cleaning? Since you used water to extinguish the engine fire you should reapply heat sink paste to the bottom of the ignition module.

1970cs

What year Firebird? The early to mid eighties ran a 305 which is Chevy. All above would be correct and the firing order would be different and the distributor would turn clockwise. Can you post a picture of the engine bay?

pat

Sugar Bear

Pat, That's a good question!

@ thegrantler...where does oil get put in this engine, through the valve cover or through a vertical tube at the front of the engine? Depending upon the year I'm wondering if this could be a SBC, Pontiac or an Olds transplant motor.

A picture of the engine would be best.

thegrantler

Its an olds transplant, not factory. I tried moving the distributor to align properly but didn't help. Also tried moving the plugs. I was thinking the timing was off but I just don't see how that could have happened from a fire or water being in there. All the stuff in the distributor didn't get wet and none of it got bunt, just the cap and wires. I've double checked the wire locations too

Sugar Bear

The timing would have changed if the ignition cables were off one spot in the place from where they were originally. Were the cables changed one at a time? If yes it is unlikely they are out of sequence.

thegrantler

Yes i did but not based off of how they were to begin with. When i set it to where its on cylinder 1 at 20 btdc, it backfires out of the intake

oldcutlass

This means there is something wrong with your ignition timing. It could be anything from being wired wrong to distributor position.

no1oldsfan

That engine being flushed with heavy amounts of water is no joke. You need to flush every angle off that motor. All the oil etc. You can't just go forward without doing that.

thegrantler

I've already flushed it. How else should i set the timing? Thats the only way i know how

Vintage Chief

From the beginning, you are not making this easy. A member asked what distributor you have. Is it a contact points distributor or an electronic ignition (i.e. HEI) distributor?

Vintage Chief

You validated the spark plug wires are installed in the CORRECT (CCW) orientation for a OLDSMOBILE (307 cid) engine, correct?

Olds64

Thanks for posting the diagrams Norm.
​​​​​​

Sugar Bear

Backfiring out of the intake, it may be 180 degrees out meaning the TDC when the distributor was installed was on the exhaust stroke it needs to be TDC on the compression stroke. At TDC compression the rocker arms on cylinder #1 are both closed and won't move if the crank is turned a little in either direction, the rocker arms on cylinder #6 are both closed at TDC but both will move very soon as you move the crank back and forth.

Put a compression gauge in cylinder #1 and confirm that it is at TDC compression. If you don't have a compression gauge you can either feel for the compression or put a tissue in the spark plug hole lightly and the compression will blow it out.

no1oldsfan

It may sound lame but once you dump water into an engine that changes everything. Especially if you try running it after

Olds64

What a handy trick. I have used my finger over the spark plug hole to find TDC but never thought to use a tissue.

joe_padavano

I've done this also. It's pretty handy if you are by yourself and bumping the starter with the key. You can usually see the paper blow out from the driver's seat.

thegrantler

Im pretty sure its an hei, the coil sits on top of the cap. All of the water was thoroughly flushed out along with new plugs. Nothing mechanical was changed so I don't know how the timing could be off. And the rotor only goes on one way along with the cap

Vintage Chief

If you can't be sure what type distributor you have and you're guessing e.g. "...pretty sure it's an HEI..." you need to CONFIRM what type it is. Guessing buys you nothing. You're not making this easy. As has been suggested, post a picture of your engine bay and in particular your distributor.

If you don't know how to post a picture, read this >>> How To Post Pictures/Images

Sugar Bear

Can't take credit for thinking of it, a CO member brought it up a few years back...

Bernhard

X2
If the engine ran or was cranked with water in the cylinders you can hydrolock the engine.

thegrantler

As i said, all the water was removed from the inside immediately after it happened.

Sugar Bear

That is a factory GM HEI distributor. Again if at all possible do a compression test before replacing any parts to rule out any internal engine problems.

thegrantler

I plan to, it sounds the same turning over and the pressure felt strong with my finger but ill do an actual test when i get a chance

70W-32

Youre wire order on the cap is not correct

And did you replace the coil ground when you installed the new cap. I see a coil ground laying next to the old coil on the cowl
Is that distributor from a CCC car, I dont see a vacuum advance canister

Do yourself a favor and cover the carb opening with tape, or something, to prevent any crap from falling into the intake

Sugar Bear

I think 70W-32 is correct, the wiring order is wrong.

Vintage Chief

Re-read Post #25.
NOTE: Firing order is CCW 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2