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Original front fender mounting. I am going to take a leap based on all my corvette experience and assume the reproduction stuff does not look exactly like that. Underside red inner finder with mud flap still present Plastic type cover not metal
Not sure about whether radiator is original or not since it was in the trunk with shroud etc but here are photos.
The ED rad tag code was the Y72 heavy duty radiator option.
If your car did not come with 3:91 gears and the V01 EC rad code tag,
you ordered the Y72 to get essentially the same 4 core radiator.
Great car! Have any more pictures of your W27? Also, I would say that is not the original radiator. The “ED” radiator / Y72 was not available on a W30. Keep the pictures coming
On the W27 I have posted the three photos of the two numbers I see and the limited slip tag. I looked for the axil code on Saturday on the passenger side as you face the rear of the car but I was looking more towards the pumpkin and between the top and bottom of the metal. Nothing. Ed sent me a photo showing it is almost on top and closer to the wheel. But that was a regular axil. Where is the code on the W27? Had to use brake cleaner to get the hard tar off but did not scrap with any abrasive. So on the two response on the radiator, could you guys clarify a little? No way to get ED Y72 heavy duty radiator at all in 1970 W30 or you could get another gear ratio and special order Y72? The radiator looks period, just did it come in this car originally. I would think the heavy duty radiator would be the choice in any W30?
Great car! Have any more pictures of your W27? Also, I would say that is not the original radiator. The “ED” radiator / Y72 was not available on a W30. Keep the pictures coming
That's incorrect.
A 1970 W30 with 3:42 gears came with a three core radiator.
If you wanted a 4 core you would have had to order the Y72.
If I can find the code on the rear end that would go a long way in sorting things out I assume. David
If you want to know what gears are in the rear, since it's on the lift, simply rotate either rear wheel one complete revolution and count the number of turns of the pinion yoke. Just under 3 1/2 turns = 3.42; just under 4 turns = 3.91. It works like a champ on cars WITH a posi. On cars with an open rear (non-posi) you need to hold one rear tire and turn the other side TWO complete revolutions.
Well ED is what is in the car, so sure it could have been changed out, but on a day two car it probably would have been a who knows what radiator. West coast cars were bad on radiators.
The radiator posts within this thread is an interesting topic. RocketDevo and JoesW31 are two very knowledgeable individuals who are very passionate about Oldsmobile.
With that said, this is what I have found from printed documentation regarding W27, W30, W31, and Y72.
Included are 2 photographs from the 1970 Inspector’s Guide stating Y72 is not available with the W30 or W31 package.
The other photograph is from the 1970 Service Manual depicting the 3 gear ratios available with W27 and 442.
So, according to the documentation, and if the documentation is correct, the Inspectors didn’t allow a W30 or W31 out the door with a Y72 package, but I guess anything is possible.
tnswt has posted some excellent information.
The inspectors guide states that the Y72 could not be offered for W30 cars.
One of the main reasons for this is 3:91 gear ratio cars got the V01 EC 4 core standard.
The 3:42 gear W30's came standard with a 3 core V02.
If you wanted a 4 core when you ordered a W30 with 3:42 gears, there is no plausible reason for it to be refused?
There is no other way to get a 4 core than the Y72 option which is the ED rad code tag when not mandatory.
Both the EC and ED radiators are identical other than the tag code CH vs CI on the passenger tank.
442's with AC received a 4 core, including W30's. They generally were 3:23 gear ratio's.
The fact you have an original 4 core with tag still intact goes a long way that your car came with it.
The last thing to check would be to see if the bottom rad cradles are 4 core width, not hammered wider as they are spot welded in.
Hope this helps.
I can check the lower supports for sure. Also get better photos of any date code etc. Also I will determine the axel code either with the stamping code or turn the wheel. The Lower supports would have to have been hammered out then, which should become obvious on close inspection or they were changed out??? That might be apparent as well.
Devin thanks for your input and for sharing your knowledge about these cars. As a layman I want to follow up regarding some of your comments.
Originally Posted by RocketDevo
The inspectors guide states that the Y72 could not be offered for W30 cars......The fact you have an original 4 core with tag still intact goes a long way that your car came with it.
This seems contradictory to me regarding the op's W car, on the one hand Y72 is not available in W cars, and on the other hand, you are saying the ED Y72 radiator in the car now came from the factory?
[/QUOTE]If you wanted a 4 core when you ordered a W30 with 3:42 gears, there is no plausible reason for it to be refused?[/QUOTE]
The PIM and other documentation state V02 (3 core) is mandatory with W30 cars/3:42, would this rule not be sufficient reason the request for a 4 core would be refused?
[/QUOTE]442's with AC received a 4 core, including W30's. They generally were 3:23 gear ratio's.[/QUOTE]
Yes, AC and or 3:91 ratio were 4 core cars. As least that is how I have come to learn it.
Last edited by tnswt; July 12th, 2022 at 02:48 PM.
Devin thanks for your input and for sharing your knowledge about these cars. As a layman I want to follow up regarding some of your comments.
This seems contradictory to me regarding the op's W car, on the one hand Y72 is not available in W cars, and on the other hand, you are saying the ED Y72 radiator in the car now came from the factory?
If you wanted a 4 core when you ordered a W30 with 3:42 gears, there is no plausible reason for it to be refused?[/QUOTE]
The PIM and other documentation state V02 (3 core) is mandatory with W30 cars/3:42, would this rule not be sufficient reason the request for a 4 core would be refused?
[/QUOTE]442's with AC received a 4 core, including W30's. They generally were 3:23 gear ratio's.[/QUOTE]
Yes, AC and or 3:91 ratio were 4 core cars. As least that is how I have come to learn it.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for all the comments. I do not know the gearing in the W27 yet. Tried to find the two letter code the other day but did not see anything on the passenger tube front facing. However I may not have looked widely enough. Dense tar like layer covering the tube so will look again at end of the week. Can also spin wheel as suggested. I am just a perfectionist and want to find the code, I hope. LOL One of the best things about this car is the body. Because the body is near perfect, it needs nothing and the paint I think is good enough to leave alone even though it has had some paint work done probably in the early to mid 1970’s. Interior is great, maybe not mint but needs no
Nothing. So doll up and get running and leave some of the day two stuff like the gauges. Change the steering wheel, and radio, leave the really early 15 inch wheels from the 1970’s etc. I had a 1969 HEMI roadrunner recently that was the most original on earth and interior was great, and the paint was ok. Every piece of factory paperwork that could possibly be had. BUT the drivers side had big swipe dents and trunk lid caved in some and rusted quarters in rear and lower doors. Under hood was rusted. Not through but looked bad. No way to do anything to it at all unless you do the whole thing and lose all the survivor status. Very frustrating so I sold it.
Sounds like from everyone’s comments the ED radiator should not be in the car given our current knowledge. However as mentioned if it did not come with it then putting it in after the fact is no easy task and no slam dunk. Would require modifications one way or the other. That should be discernible by careful examination of the support structure would it not? What if it looks like it has been there from day one with no changes?
Without a reasonable doubt, that is not the original radiator to your car. That radiator was available from any GM dealer and Delco distributor as a replacement part. I would take your car has 3.91 gears since it has a 4 core radiator, a fan shroud, and the code on the fan clutch should be “OR” as part of the oai package. Hope this helps
Pulling the radiator out to see iff the lower cradles have been bent out to accept a wider radiator is very simple, that will tell the story. Of course if a fender has been replaced maybe the original radiator was damaged in that situation hence the possibility of this replacement. Something happened at some time to get the fender replaced for sure.. once you get the outside cleaned up it may tell the story… the interesting thing is your car has a shroud and the 4 core radiator top plate yet no AC? So somethings saying that as original equipment? Gear ratio in w27 should put some light on this.. still a stellar find no matter how you look at it..
Yes right looks like right front finder was replaced way back maybe 70’s. Only body panel replaced as far as any of us can tell.
If the only evidence that the r. front fender was replaced is the "dimples", I believe that '70 was a transitional year, with regard to the change in the fender design. It may be that they were phasing in the new fenders when your car was built. Just a thought.
If the only evidence that the r. front fender was replaced is the "dimples", I believe that '70 was a transitional year, with regard to the change in the fender design. It may be that they were phasing in the new fenders when your car was built. Just a thought.
I was wondering that same thing with the exception of the date code on the body tag being 02a, very early February build
Devin thanks for your input and for sharing your knowledge about these cars. As a layman I want to follow up regarding some of your comments.
This seems contradictory to me regarding the op's W car, on the one hand Y72 is not available in W cars, and on the other hand, you are saying the ED Y72 radiator in the car now came from the factory?
If you wanted a 4 core when you ordered a W30 with 3:42 gears, there is no plausible reason for it to be refused?[/QUOTE]
The PIM and other documentation state V02 (3 core) is mandatory with W30 cars/3:42, would this rule not be sufficient reason the request for a 4 core would be refused?
[/QUOTE]442's with AC received a 4 core, including W30's. They generally were 3:23 gear ratio's.[/QUOTE]
Yes, AC and or 3:91 ratio were 4 core cars. As least that is how I have come to learn it.[/QUOTE]
I have to back peddle a little.
I was interconnecting two different terms.
There is Heavy duty cooling and Heavy Duty Radiator.
JoesW31 is correct when stating Y72 is not necessarily a 4 core.
I negated to remember that in 1970 for example, HD cooling was a 3 core in some models, rad tag code FE.
The FE rad code tag, is the top 3 core in 1970. It came on 3:42 gear W30 standard trans cars.
Olds felt it did not need all the associated goodies that HD cooling offered, namely a shroud.
In my contention I kept referring to HD cooling as just a 4 core when I was thinking of HD radiator, which is incorrect.
The term HD radiator generally refers to a 4 core rad. In the case of inline 6 vehicles with Y72 a 3 core was felt sufficient.
All other models when Y72 heavy duty cooling was ordered you got the HD 4 core radiator along with it.
A little bit of contradiction here,
A 1970 Cutlass with AC got a 3 core, code FE radiator. It was considered HD cooling, as it received all the same items as Y72 sans 4 core.
In this case the 3 core was considered a HD radiator.
My contention all along was, even though Olds stated no Y72 for W30 3:42, 3:91 if you wanted a 4 core in your W30 4 speed for example,Finall there was no definitive reason it would or should be denied.
The Y72 was an option to have better cooling, many other options that are not standard have been seen and ordered on various cars, no plausible reason in this case either.
In the case of the car in question, knowing the rad support has not been altered and the radiator being correct with tag in place would go a long way in showing the original owner was able to get the car this way?
Finally, a Cutlass, Cutlass Supreme, Vista could be had with Y72 and the 4 core ED rad code, but a 442 W30 with a Standard transmission could not, Does that make sense?
Hope I did not muddy the waters further.
[QUOTE=RocketDevo;
In the case of the car in question, knowing the rad support has not been altered and the radiator being correct with tag in place would go a long way in showing the original owner was able to get the car this way?
[/QUOTE] Yea, I agree it's questionable! Anyway, that is your opinion and I certainly respect you for sharing it.
Too, thanks for the follow up and added clarifications. It's always a pleasure to hear from you.
Check the waterpump and fan clutch assembly for correct numbers and appropriate dates, abnormal occurrences could further support the assumption made in post #110.....
Water pump was not original to car, later date and incorrect number. Got the correct pump both to be numbers correct but also we did not trust it to work and no reason to rebuild the wrong one. I would love to believe the front passenger fender was original even with the dimples but, this photo shows the original mounting technique from the factory on the drivers side. Never touched. The other side looks different and day two, sorry I cannot find a photo of that side. Thought I took one to show the difference but I guess I didn’t.
Most importantly guys I may have sandbagged you all without realizing it. Andy, please explain if you would the concept to me of the car having or not having a fan shroud and the upper bracket etc??? I am not familiar with such a thing. I have never seen a car without a shroud around the fan blade. Can someone show photos of a W30 in such a factory state? I will explain why once I understand what you are referring to. Sorry for my lack of knowledge here. Never had an olds muscle car before. 69 Trans Am, Chevelle LS6 etc, but no olds. This may clear things up on the radiator as well. David
July 8th, 2022, 09:23 PM
