matt69olds

I worked at a couple new car dealerships, the last one I worked at was a Buick dealer 23 years ago, and a Buick/Cadillac/Chrysler/Jeep before that. I’m amazed at what is on car lots today.

My story begins several weeks ago. The lease on my wife’s jeep is up next week, so we started looking for a replacement vehicle. For some silly reason, my wife wants a convertible. Knowing my wife, a daily driver convertible for my wife will be a huge mistake. She always complains about being cold, rattles/wind noise/squeaks/etc, all the things that typically go hand in hand with owning a convertible. In my opinion, the only time a convertible should have the top up is to wash it or park it.

Anyway, we go to a Cadillac/chevy dealer about an hour away to look at a 2009 Pontiac G8. We find the car on the lot and look it over before ever asking for a salesman. What I find shocks me. Not one tire matches, the tires don’t have much life left, headlights with severe “cataracts, the front bumper cover is slightly ripped, and most noticeable, a poorly repaired huge dent in the rear quarter, just ahead of the tire. The dent must have had a 1/2 inch of bondo popping out, with really rusty metal visible under the repair attempt.

Since I had never been in one, and my wife had never driven one to even know if she would like it, we decided to drive it just to see. So we get the keys, and take it for a test drive. I drive it first. Remember the almost bald tires? I swear the tires felt like they were square, or it had a badly bent rim. The left turn signal didn’t flash, and it had some nasty brake pulse. I pull over into a parking lot to switch drivers, only to find the power seat didn’t work. No thanks.

We have looked at several other used cars, all have had something that either didn’t work, or had entirely too much parking lot battle damage. Things that should have been caught during a used car inspection and fixed before ever being offered for sale. I would expect those kinds of cars to be on a independent used car lot, but not on a new car dealer used car lot.

I understand it’s been 23 years since I did used car inspection and prep, that crap would have never made it onto the dealers lots I worked at. They would have been sent to auctioned instead of it was too costly to fix.

Im finding this on every used car lot. With one girl in her last year of college, my other girl starting her first year this fall, and my son rapidly approaching driving age, I’m not really interested in another new car abd new car payment. Unless we find something we both like, that’s not all beat to hell, that isn’t overpriced, my Ram will become a daily driver once again.

Are others in readerland seeing the same trend?

don71

Car lots in my area have a limited selection, all of them, from the big boys to the little mom and pop lots. I think your experience is a sign of current conditions. I'm always looking but not really shopping but there sure isn't much to look at now.

I don't like the dealer car buying experience. The online options where you buy strictly from photos and description/30 day return, are tempting. I will for sure, keep looking. and waiting.

442Harv

In Cal the car you described would not be most new car lots, they would go to auction, and end up on a used car lot, and we have different types, ones that sell low end and high end. What I found in Cal when I went to trade in a car, if it was not low mileage and fairly new, they would not give you any money for it, they said it would go to the auction, like 5 years old is as old as they want. I always have to sell myself.

Human

I hear you and feel your pain. I bought my 2013 Buick LaCrosse off of an independent lot a little over a year ago when my previous daily driver, a 2011 Chevy Impala got rear-ended and totaled by a drunk driver. The guy who owned the lot was a talker and he said it was getting harder and harder to find good cars to put on his lot at a price he could make money on.

I feel like I really lucked out finding that car on Edmunds.com. I had gone on the site to try and get a valuation on the Impala to keep from getting snookered by the insurance companies and ended up looking at potential replacements. The LaCrosse was the least expensive of the cars I looked at and at only 57,000 miles, the lowest mileage and in pristine condition as well. The dealer was in a town about an hour away from me and he was out at lunch when I got up there so I had a little time to look at what else was on his lot. Let's just say I wasn't at all impressed. The LaCrosse had half or fewer miles on it than anything else on the lot and it was the only thing I considered to be in even remotely acceptable condition. Fortunately for me, he had it priced to sell and it was in a range for which I could comfortably write a check. I decided it was a bird in the hand and bought it for his asking price, which Edmunds called a "Great Deal" at 23% below market, and I haven't regretted it.

bccan

The majority of cars on independent lots are auction cars and dealer trade ins that got wholesaled, certainly the lower half of the barrel of available vehicles. It surprises me that a franchise dealer had a POS like the one you looked at on the retail lot. They’re not all disasters, certainly some perfectly good cars to be had but caveat emptor never has meant more than when used car shopping.

I would always feel safer in the private sale market as you get a read on likely quality of ownership, maintenance and not getting a gussied up, mobile paint gypsie blend job, oily polish & afro sheened tires car lot ho.

You’re at least knowledgeable and can weigh condition v price v car’s needs so at least you stand a good chance of buying successfully.

jaunty75

The car you're looking at is 12 years old. That's old. What were they asking for it? You want a car with few problems, you need to find something much more late-model. I agree that they ought to fix the major things, but, on the other hand, the dealer can put lots of money into the car fixing the problems you mention, but, in the end, it will still be a 12-year-old car, and there's only so much you can get for something like that. If he puts too much into it, he won't make money on the sale, and he needs to do that if he wants to stay in business.

We all learn that in this hobby. A car's value is based on the market, not on what you spend to fix it up. You might not have liked the car, but someone will, and someone will buy it, not because the car is in great shape, but because they can afford it, and the problems you mention don't bother them.

08-141 K43727

Moreover, I am not convinced anyone except the folks on here can fix anything anymore...

Koda

You're not going to find an old creampuff on a car lot. Newer creampuffs, or old beaters.

Old creampuffs are on ads, in people's garages, and they will feel you out before even talking to you. Chances are, if you're picky and want old, you'll have to do not-local.

matt69olds

I knew I wouldn’t find a flawless car on a used car lot. I just wasn’t expecting to find the kind of crap I was seeing on every car lot I went to.

We went to look at the Pontiac because it was a convertible. It just seems like there aren’t many convertibles out there. The other cars we looked at were 5-7 years old. I figured something like that would be old enough to be fairly cheap, but not trashed and worn out.

Without a doubt, my 06 Ram with 3 times the mileage is in far better shape than cars half as old. I’m sure the pride and care I put into plays no small part in its condition.

I bought a 2005 Grand Prix for my youngest daughter 2 years ago. She recently turned 150k miles on it, i think it had 130k when I bought it. I paid 2500, it needed tires and some suspension work. In my opinion, it’s in better shape than 90% of what we looked at.

I suppose part of the problem is people are keeping cars longer than ever. At the same time, cars are more expensive now than ever, why wouldn’t you take care of such a huge investment?

On a related subject, a couple weeks ago we looked at a 2015 (I think?) Buick lacern (however it’s spelled) ironically at the same Buick dealership I worked at years ago. This was on a Sunday, so all we could do was look. My wife called and made arrangements to drive it. She stopped in after work, she no sooner opened the door and immediately said no thanks. She said it absolutely reeked of cigarette smoke. There was a perfect outline of the sun visor on the headliner from the nicotine. Pretty obvious why that one was priced below market value!!

Im not a new car fanatic, never have been. Occasionally, I get new truck fever. I just don’t want new truck monthly payment! I have my Olds, the truck for when we vacation, and my beater neon. I despise the entire car buying process, to be honest I’m kinda a dick about it. It usually takes only one or 2 “let me talk to my manager” before I either leave or tell the salesman to get the manager in here. Or when you tell a salesman what your monthly payment budget is, and not 10 minutes later “ you can drive this for only “x” amount more a month.” Once again, this is my budget, either sell the car at this monthly payment, or stop wasting my time. I suppose this is why I drive old stuff, or never get rid of what I have.

I guess it’s nice that she doesn’t HAVE to buy something, at least the truck is there. My other thought is find something suitable for my son when he turns 16. She could drive it for a while, long enough to make sure nuts are going to stay on bolts, then hand him the key and start car shopping for her. My son wants a old Wrangler (he has some friends that like to off road) or of all things, a Ford Pinto.

jaunty75

I'm just the opposite. I like to have at least the main family vehicle that my wife drives (and that the kids rode around in before they did the annoying thing and grew up) be purchased new. I like knowing that the car she is driving is in good shape at the start, I like knowing how it has been maintained and that it has been maintained well right from the start, and I like knowing that any problems it has are problems that occurred on my watch. Just two days ago my wife and I went out and traded in our nearly 100,000 mile, 2014 Mazda 6 Sport, which has served us well, on a 2021 Mazda 6 Touring. After two days, it still smells new!

My pickup truck, on the other hand, was bought used. I drive that, and I don't mind if it has any minor issues (which it doesn't so far!)

oldcutlass

When I was selling cars, we called those issues negotiating features. Dealers now a days are putting hoopties on the lot for people who want a cash car for a first time driver. They are as is, where is, and generally you can't finance them. If they don't sell in 60 days they get wholesaled. I still stay in touch with people at my old dealership (small town Ford dealer) and they said that last year was their best used car volume sales ever. Cars at auction are higher than giraffes nads and the normal recirculating of rental car fleet inventory is non existant.

Fun71

Also what's happened is the supply chain for manufacturing new cars was impacted by the pandemic, so the number of new vehicles on dealer lots is down, which drove up the market (and price) for used vehicles.

chip-powell

I grew up on my Dad's used car lot. Almost always, the used cars sold by the new car dealers are trade ins. Unless the car is only 2-3 years old they don't care at all about them. They will do nothing at all to them except the most basic maintenance to get them to pass inspection. If the don't sell in a few weeks they are shipped off to a dealer auction.

Independents will usually work harder to fix a car. Because their margins are smaller. They need the car sold as soon as possible and will work with you. Those that don't, walk away from. They will screw you over.

Any more, your best bet is still the private owner. But be prepared to be looking for a while and to make more repairs than you planned on. It took me 7 months to find a car that I thought was safe enough for my oldest son and I still had to put brakes, shocks and tires on it. It took 5 months for my middle son and I had to drop a new steering column in that one (leaking rack&pinion) to get it to pass inspection.

When I was a kid working at my Dad's lot 100k miles on a car was a death sentence for resale. Now the used cars out there have 150k, 200k sometimes 250k on them and people act like it means nothing. I guess the old term "drive it 'till the wheels fall off" is back in fashion.

jaunty75

I expected this when we went looking for a car two days ago, and the local Mazda dealer did have only two 6's on the lot. But we also considered Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima, and both the local Toyota and Nissan dealers had more than twenty 2021 Camrys and Altimas on their lots. We would have had plenty to choose from had we gone there. The next nearest Mazda dealer, about 40 miles away, had nine 6's on the lot if we couldn't find what we wanted locally and really wanted a Mazda.

In spite of the seemingly shortening supply, Mazda is offering 0% financing on the 6, which was one reason went with Mazda again. You usually don't see that kind of incentive in a seller's market, which you would expect it to be with the chip shortage causing a slowdown in production at some plants and presumably smaller supplies of new cars and trucks.

Before anyone asks, we did look at Chevy, Buick, and Ford, too, but they don't make conventional family sedans any more, which is what my wife wanted.

Weezer

Kenneth gave you the answer you're looking for, which is the supply chain disruption from the pandemic. Take Ford as an example, they have stated they are going to make 1.1 MILLION LESS cars this year due to the shortages of components. Multiply that across all the OEM's, and you have a massive new car shortage, that in turn drives a used car shortage. Additionally, that impacts the used car inventory quality that you will experience at the new car dealerships.

If I was to hazard a guess as to why that Pontiac G6 is on their lot, it's specifically because it's a convertible. (NOTE: I know you made a mistake in saying it was a G8 that you looked at, because GM never made a G8 convertible.) Those G6's are desirable because they are hard-top convertibles. It is quite sad that they didn't even bother to slap new tires on it, though. Was there any indication as to when they had taken it in on trade? When I bought my '05 Lesabre from the used car lot of a GMC-Buick dealership back in '11, the salesman was quick to point out that they hadn't had a chance to put new brakes or tires on b/c they took it in on trade a day or two prior, and it was in the queue for the Service Dept to do the full inspection and service. Of course, that's 10 years ago, but GM dealerships have certain standards that they are held to by corporate. The GM field reps ensure they do.

There are plenty of good deals to be had on those Epsilon platform cars. I'd love to find a G6 hardtop conv in nice condition for my kid to replace the Lesabre. Happy hunting, Matt.

Kennybill

I'd look for private owner plus cash is King. I always joke ( but true) the hardest car to sell is a $5k to $8k car because not many have cash and nor can they get a loan for a private car. These same people can get a new car loan/lease.

Weezer

The GM E2XX platform -- does the Malibu or Regal not fit that bill for you? I would have strongly considered a Regal when I bought my Lacrosse in 2019, but I've got two almost-6' teenagers, and wanted them to have adequate leg room behind my seat (I'm 6'1" but have the legs of a guy that should be 6'4").

jaunty75

Nobody had one. Not even mentioned on their websites. Can't buy what's not there.

The local Chevy dealer showed exactly four new non-SUVs/non-trucks on their website, two Camaros and two Corvettes.

The local Buick dealer had 19 new vehicles on the lot, 14 Encores, 3 Envisions, and 2 Enclaves. If I wanted an SUV that started with "E," I'd have been in fine shape. If I wanted a sedan, not so much.

I was wrong above to say that Chevy doesn't make sedans any more. They do. But they can't be gotten within 50 miles of where I live.


I checked the three Chevy dealers in El Paso, about 50-60 miles from me depending on where they are. Between the three of them, they have three Malibus and no Impalas.

I checked the two Buick dealers in El Paso. No Regals anywhere. Plenty of SUVs.

jaunty75

There is no 2021 Buick Regal. That explains why I can't find one.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/buic...1-buick-regal/

no1oldsfan

I also subscribe to the private owner route. Still need to know what you are getting into but seeing what car dealers buy at auctions and slap whatever on them to make a buck. No thanks. My driver is an old Lexus ES 300. 267000 miles. Damn near zero problems. Huge 1000 price tag a few years back from a private owner. We want to get another sedan. We are looking to get an Olds or a Buick.

Koda

You're right on the shortages, my plant is uptight about more cars going out the door vs part shortages.

My Tacoma has 260k. Starting to get a few issues, the cat is plugging up like a fraternity toilet system.

matt69olds

Your right, it was a G6. Judging from the rust on the rotors, it had been there awhile. It took several stops before the brakes stopped grinding.

66_Jetstar

I'd bet a cold beer that car hasn't been through the service department yet. There isn't a used car tech at a dealer that isn't putting brakes on every car thats on his lift. The dealers are in a weird spot with what's happening around the world. They are probably waiting to spiff it up until they have a commitment to buy. I'm not sure where you are located but being a convertible they may also be waiting for the weather to break before they get serious with it too. just some rando thoughts.

Tedd Thompson

You need to look for convertibles in December- February when it's cold wet and frozen. You will need cash patients and buy from a private party preverbally. There are opportunity out there you just have to market yourself and your needs through your network. You have one just make it known through friends and family even though it may seem uncomfortable at first.

Remember there are always the four D's that arise and cause sales no matter what the time is and they are Death. Dieses. Debt. and Desire. Someone's bad fortune can be a advantage for you. Sounds cruel but someone is going to take advantage of this mishap it might as well be you..... Tedd

Koda

What about divorce, Tedd?

Tedd Thompson

How in the hell did I miss that. Short memory...... Tedd

Weezer

D'oh! Totally forgot about that. Impalas are out of production, too. Those were made at the Hamtramck plant where my Lacrosse was made, and the whole facility is being converted over to produce electric vehicles (Plant ZERO). Holy hell... the Malibu is the last affordable car GM makes.

blakes7

The last two cars I bought were from Carmax, the only time in my life where I bought cars and didn't feel like I was just raped. I was treated decently, the process was seamless, the cars were honestly represented with numerous pictures, the cars have been reliable all these years, I don't think I'd even consider a regular dealer ever again. In my limited experiences on Long Island, NY, with dealerships, it's a sport to them to screw you any and every possible way they can, and they'll even expect you to thank them for it, and they get angry if you don't! The transparent lies, arrogance and lack of conscience is mind-boggling. I won't be surprised when I see a news headline "Used Car Salesman Arrested for selling own children to Gypsies".

Koda

The Big 3 may be a little hasty in abandoning all their gasoline powered sedans just yet. I'm expecting a big surge in business and trade over the next couple years and gas will go high again here in, let's say 2025.

Weezer

You'd think, right? But I see the electrification of their fleet as the driving factor. Maximize the profits gleaned from SUV's and trucks to get their electric platforms to market, which isn't a cheap changeover.

solly

Another one I heard frequently was “ he doesn’t know **** from shinola

jaunty75