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I have some theories but I’m curious to get some others thoughts!
I purchased what was mentioned to be a 1971 Cutlass Convertible from a guy who doesn’t know much about them and who acquired it from his brother and customized it from interior and exterior paint color
changes… so definitely not all original but…
Interestingly, the hood, front fender, front and rear bumpers and even interior bucket seats lines up to be as such for year 1971… however when doing the vin decode from the window location, it comes back as a 1970…
Q: Would Oldsmobile provide certain 1971 options on a 1970 vehicle?
I’m open for some other thoughts on this acquisition
My first car was a ‘70 Supreme with a ‘72 nose on it. Lots of “close enough” interchanges on 70-72. VIN is the gospel, unless of course it’s a body swap! Probably not helpful but remotely relevant.
Is there a title denoting the “actuals?” When dealing with Motor Vehicle Dept, go with what’s on the paperwork, they’ll generally only compare numbers between car and any paperwork if inspected. If you try to straighten out a discrepancy, you might as well kick over Pandora’s Box.
Post both a picture of the Cowl Tag and the VIN. Post a picture of both the engine VIN derivative number & the transmission VIN derivative number. Then, if you want further definitive assistance we could assist by evaluating crash/crumble ridges on inside of front fenders, rear ends, heads, etc.
My first car was a ‘70 Supreme with a ‘72 nose on it. Lots of “close enough” interchanges on 70-72. VIN is the gospel, unless of course it’s a body swap! Probably not helpful but remotely relevant.
Is there a title denoting the “actuals?” When dealing with Motor Vehicle Dept, go with what’s on the paperwork, they’ll generally only compare numbers between car and any paperwork if inspected. If you try to straighten out a discrepancy, you might as well kick over Pandora’s Box.
….
So the state it was titled in goofed up because the VIN was off sloghtly! Was was a Z on the VIN was mistaken to be a 2… fortunately for me I’m in a state that doesn’t issue titles on classics anyway so the bI’ll of sale suffices. But I’m extra curious now after having both 1970 and 1971 and remembering the interior seat pattern on the 1971 has purely vertical lines while the 1970s had rectangular/square patterns.
Post both a picture of the Cowl Tag and the VIN. Post a picture of both the engine VIN derivative number & the transmission VIN derivative number. Then, if you want further definitive assistance we could assist by evaluating crash/crumble ridges on inside of front fenders, rear ends, heads, etc.
It’s being shipped to me by Wed but for now the VIN I photographed is attached. What other locations do I need to check? At this point I have to use the VIN to register unless the other areas come back with something different.
Last edited by Mattch; May 16th, 2022 at 07:46 PM.
On my phone so I can’t see the image clearly as it’s modestly blurred. I’d have to view it on my PC monitor. Others can probably view it faster than me.
The VIN located on the title is the VIN you have to use to register the vehicle. The title VIN needs to match the VIN plate on the dash. If they do not match, you have an issue which requires further attention.
Again, sorry I’m on my phone, do a search for “VIN derivative” (include the quote marks). Many threads/posts demonstrating location and images for the VIN derivative stamps on the engine and transmission.
On my phone so I can’t see the image clearly as it’s modestly blurred. I’d have to view it on my PC monitor. Others can probably view it faster than me.
The VIN located on the title is the VIN you have to use to register the vehicle. The title VIN needs to match the VIN plate on the dash. If they do not match, you have an issue which requires further attention.
I’ll take some other photos after I get it… but the VIN plate as mentioned another gent and myself decoded it today to be 342670Z….
Here are both my driver's side door and dash VIN number placards. Mine is a 1971 CS convertible. Your VIN is identified as a 1970 CS convertible built in Fremont (Z), California. Mine contains the letter "M" (built in Lansing, MI).
3=Oldsmobile
42=Series (Cutlass Supreme)
67=Convertible
0=Model Year (1970)
Z=Fremont
I guess the important question has been answered - your vehicle is a 1970 CS convertible built in Fremont, CA. The Cowl Tag and/or the driver's door placard can assist regarding the actual build date of the vehicle. As has been suggested already, numerous parts/items are interchangeable between model years. In 1971 crumple/collapsible/ridged front fenders were mandatory - they are identified by raised ridges on the inside (top) of the fenders. However, those fenders began to be built in 1970 and 1970 vehicles were produced w/ the ridged fenders mandatory in the 1971 model year. Depending on how deep you believe you want to go on addressing authenticity of 1970 or 1971 parts/items, you could begin your own investigation(s) regarding engine, transmission, rear end, etc. But again, your VIN validates 1970 CS convertible.
Here are both my driver's side door and dash VIN number placards. Mine is a 1971 CS convertible. Your VIN is identified as a 1970 CS convertible built in Fremont (Z), California. Mine contains the letter "M" (built in Lansing, MI).
3=Oldsmobile
42=Series (Cutlass Supreme)
67=Convertible
0=Model Year (1970)
Z=Fremont
I’ll check the door location after delivery.
We agreed yes the VIN indicates it should be a 1970… but as mentioned, the front grill/hood and front/rear bumpers and the bucket seats align with the 1971… which is why I asked if in 1970 you could get those options. One theory is that there was an issue and depending on time and sourcing the front clip replaced and that to be consistent, the rear bumper as well.
pic is from the guys photo album before colors were changed.
If you do not already own the CSM, it is a must to own in order to service your vehicle, it contains the original color wiring diagram and a plethora of original information pertaining to your vehicle. It is your bible.
Buy only an original paperback original OEM manual - digital copies are junk and paperback "copies" often lack pages and can't be read. The best investment you will make on your vehicle. Here is one on eBay.
If you do not already own the CSM, it is a must to own in order to service your vehicle, it contains the original color wiring diagram and a plethora of original information pertaining to your vehicle. It is your bible.
Buy only an original paperback original OEM manual - digital copies are junk and paperback "copies" often lack pages and can't be read. The best investment you will make on your vehicle. Here is one on eBay.
Thanks! I just found a new reprint for $66 on eBay. My CS it’s well optioned out with Factory AC, buckets, floor shifter, factory Rallye tic tock tach, power door locks…
Last edited by Mattch; May 16th, 2022 at 08:48 PM.
...the front grill/hood and front/rear bumpers and the bucket seats align with the 1971… which is why I asked if in 1970 you could get those options. One theory is that there was an issue and depending on time and sourcing the front clip replaced and that to be consistent, the rear bumper as well.
Not quite following your question(s), but that's OK. You could not order 1971 options on a 1970 vehicle that's for certain. You could of course order optional bucket seats. I'm not privy on the delta between 1970 & 1971 bucket seats, but you could not order 1971 bucket seats on a 1970 vehicle; and, you could not order different front/rear bumpers from 1971 on a 1970.
Thanks! I just found a new one for $60 on eBay. My CS it’s well optioned out with Factory AC, buckets, floor shifter, factory Rallye tic tock tach, power door locks…
As indicated, you're best to buy a used one. The new ones are NOT original and they often do not contain the same information and do not contain a color wiring diagram. But, that's your choice.
Good luck w/ you car. I'm sure you'll have questions come up. There are many members very willing to provide you with excellent feedback. Enjoy your new car.
BTW, just for added clarity, these are the type fenders (crash/crunch/collapsible/ridged) mandatory in 1971. They began producing them in 1970, depending on build date of your vehicle, it's possible a 1970 CS could have been built w/ these style fenders. The 1970 model year fenders would have normally not contained the ridges.
As indicated, you're best to buy a used one. The new ones are NOT original and they often do not contain the same information and do not contain a color wiring diagram. But, that's your choice.
I missed your comment about the benefits of used book so I still went on and purchased the one you linked.
BTW, just for added clarity, these are the type fenders (crash/crunch/collapsible/ridged) mandatory in 1971. They began producing them in 1970, depending on build date of your vehicle, it's possible a 1970 CS could have been built w/ these style fenders. The 1970 model year fenders would have normally not contained the ridges.
That could be the explanation! You definitely
know your history!
I missed your comment about the benefits of used book so I still went on and purchased the one you linked.
That's cool, since I actually stated "Buy only an original paperback original OEM manual". I was hoping you'd have to figure out it had to have been used. None-the-less, I believe you'll be better served with the OEM original used paperback you purchased.
1970 only mirror on the door. Does it have burl wood grain detail in the interior? I also noticed grills and headlight bezel are 72. What taillights does it have? My guess is it’s an original 1970 restored with incorrect parts.
I don't know the 1970 CS convertible model year well enough to be certain of my next statement, but I'm almost certain that hood is not a 1970 CS Convertible hood?
1970 only mirror on the door. Does it have burl wood grain detail in the interior? I also noticed grills and headlight bezel are 72. What taillights does it have? My guess is it’s an original 1970 restored with incorrect parts.
It has 1971/1972 bumper. The interior was burlwood. Here are photos from his album… glad I didn’t let him keep it! He was obsessed with black and blacked out most of the interior and bumpers. LoL. But it looks nice!
Hood is correct for 71 or 72 Cutlass S or 442, not Cutlass Supreme. Bumper is 71 or 72.
I can certify you knowing your stuff because there is the “S” symbol on the fender which leads me to believe the entire front clip was replaced with that of a 71/72 S. The seller mentioned something but wasn’t clear & he wasn’t an true olds enthusiast and originally got the car from a sibling prior to the “blacked out” look
Last edited by Mattch; May 16th, 2022 at 09:24 PM.
I can certify you knowing your stuff because there is the “S” symbol on the fender which leads me to believe the entire front clip was replaced with that of a 71/72 S. The seller mentioned something but wasn’t clear & he wasn’t an true olds enthusiast and originally got the car from a sibling prior to the “blacked out” look
I’m actually on my 3rd Olds… my first being what I sold here:
The VIN clearly shows it is a 1970, and the front end has 1972 parts (grilles and headlight surrounds), so this is obviously a "repaired" vehicle using the parts from a donor car. There is no way it is a 1970 with 1971 parts from the factory, since those are 1972 parts.
Note that the core support is differfent between the 1971 and 1972 models due to the grille differences, so lift the hood and take some pics and someone will be able to tell you if it's a 1971 or a 1972 core support (I suspect 1972 based on the parts I see in the picture).
I can certify you knowing your stuff because there is the “S” symbol on the fender which leads me to believe the entire front clip was replaced with that of a 71/72 S. The seller mentioned something but wasn’t clear & he wasn’t an true olds enthusiast and originally got the car from a sibling prior to the “blacked out” look
Yes, it makes sense that the front clip was replaced with one from a 1972 S based on the grille and headlight surrounds.
Also note the 1970-1971 only, Supreme specific, wide lower side molding is missing, and the fender openings have the non-Supreme trim that goes all the way down to the bottoom of the fenders. The Supremes have shorter trim that ends at the wide lower side molding.
May 16th, 2022, 07:17 PM
