omg_its_nickels

I fear my baby is sick 1984 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser 5.0L (307)

I went to the store and the car started acting like it was running out of gas and then sputtered out and now wont start

I've used starting fluid, held the carb open, tried to start it rich, WOT, and everything I could think of, and won't turn over.

But I fear she may have jumped timing on me, but i've never seen a car jump time and die the way it did.

It has fuel (I checked it at the carb), the filter is good, it has spark, and it has compression.... I don't think it was flooded, because it still wouldn't start after about 2 hours..

Im gonna head over to work on it more today, and if it doesn't start, i'll be stumped.. especially since its in a parking lot, and I don't have a timing light... Im relatively new to carbeurated motors... any gear-heads know of this issue?? She's my favorite car and Im kinda sad now lol

) I checked the filter, and its good, and I replaced it anyway, seeing as it only set me back 2 bucks.. I had small complications cause I couldn't remember if the spring went to the carb or the connecting tube, but figured that out, and she's definently getting fuel and plenty of it.

2) I didn't have the right socket to pull my plug out, but I was able to stick something metallic in the plug wire & do it that way, but i'll try using a new plug & see what kind of spark i get. As well as go & get the right socket so i can check my spark plugs also to make sure they're not oiled up or anything. There doesn't appear to be any problems with the plug wires, and I didn't see anything in the dark when I was working on it last night, but i'll probably replace those anyways since they're overdue.


3) Starting fluid seems irrelevant for some reason, as it will cough but wont actually run, and sometimes it does that without the starting fluid also... I dunno if it makes a difference but i'm putting the starting fluid in the primary air valve, not the secondary.

4) I've tried to floor it, as well as pump it, and it coughs and acts like it wants to start, but otherwise, just turns over.

I've never torn apart a cap & rotor before, but I'll see if i can't find anything obvious as far as cracks or corrosion, and if I get stumped, I'll post pics of what I find to get another opinion on it.

PS.. i'm not a big fan of joining forums and bombarding with questions immediately, but this is my daily driver while my g/f has my L-body, and I need her running again

P.S. This is what the alphabet would look like if the letters "Q" and "R" were eliminated.

easytobedead

I would check timing chain an gear.

omg_its_nickels

I fear that may be my problem.. i just had the car towed back to my place so that I have all my tools. stock timing is 20* advance right?

citcapp

Correct.

Lady72nRob71

Welcome to Classic Olds!
I often find that internet forums are the best way to get free, quality advice from those who have real experience. Good choice in joining!

My old Ford jumped timing once on Feb 29, 2000 - go figure...
Belt was old and loose and worn. Car died on the spot. Had gas but no spark.
The plasic coated timing gears on factory engines should be replaced with metal ones.

Stock timing is 20 degrees on most 307's. For slighly more power, set at 22 but higher octain fuel will be needed.



Setting the timing as instructed from an old G-body website:
1 -Get the engine warmed up. Drive it around for 10 minutes if you can, let it idle if you can't. Obviously you cannot do this, but skip it.

2- Shut the engine off and Jumper pins A and B of the ALDL connector (under dash) with stiff wire (coat hanger).

3 - Hook up your timing light, restart (or crank) the engine, and check the timing.

4 - If the timing needs to be adjusted slightly, shut off engine, loosen the hold-downbolt at the base of the distributor. I think it's a 9/16th's bolt. A socket followed by a U-joint, then an extension makes it easiest.

5 - If off substancially, the timing chain prolly slipped.

6 - Restart engine and turn the distributor a few degrees while operating the timing light to get the timing just right. Shut off engine.

7 - Tighten the distributor bolt back down, recheck timing, and remove the ALDL jumper.

Hope this helps - do report back on your findings.

oldsmohaulic

Hopefully the top timing sprocket isn't nylon cuz a tooth might have broken off.

joe_padavano

I just went through this with my 1984 307 back in December. The cam gear is all aluminum and the teeth were only nubs. The chain had jumped about 60 degrees.

omg_its_nickels

I uploaded some pictures of the cap & rotor as well as my carb.. I didn't see anything out of the norm, but you guys probably know alot better of what normal is..

nice blue sparks all the way around.

omg_its_nickels

So i guess... umm... what's the easiest approach for getting to the timing chain? are the store brand timing kits any good? I can get a chain or I can get the chain & sprocket set (with 6* adjustable pins) for same price.

Olds64

Even though you shorted the spark plug wires and checked for spark have you had the module in the HEI distributor tested? These can be easily removed with a few screw drivers. I've seen bad HEI modules that will spark to ground from the spark plug wires but won't arc the spark plugs. You can take the module to the auto parts store and they will test it for free.

omg_its_nickels

not yet, but what's the trick to getting them back in? cause i've seen a couple that give you alot of guff going back into the block


**edit** -- if my problem is my timing, is this an interference motor? Do i need to worry about bent valves or anything??

EDIT AGAIN...olds64, i thought you were talking about the distributor shaft, lol.. my brain is in shambles. nevermind, lol.

Oldsmaniac

Its a pretty involved job to do a timing chain. You must make sure that is the problem. You must bring #1 piston to top dead center on the compression stroke and make sure line on harmonic balancer lines up with TDC on the scale at balancer and see if the rotor is pointing to #1 spark plug wire. If you have jumped time the rotor will not be pointing to #1 plug on dist cap. The chain must still be on because you say the rotor turns.

joe_padavano

I have to say, the carbon dust on the rotor looks pretty bad. I'm guessing the underside of the cap looks equally bad? When was the last time it was tuned up?

I'm both cheap and lazy, so before doing anything I would diagnose the problem. Get a timing light and check the timing mark while cranking. If the mark is in about the right place, the chain is good. If it's so far off you can't see it, bad news.

Assuming the chain is OK, replace the cap and rotor. I've seen the HEI rotor actually short through the plastic from the center terminal to the distributor shaft. Needless to say, that prevents starting also. I'd also consider throwing a new HEI module in the distributor. They do go bad.

omg_its_nickels

Now, a refresher.. I've done timing jobs before, but to make sure... to find my compression stroke, does the screwdriver trick work on these? (Pull spark plug & stick a screwdriver in and go to TDC until screwdriver is at the apex of it's height)

What's the correct timing? 20*? and what about the distributor?

Might I need to replace the pickup module as well? they don't seem to expensive, so i might just do all 3 and that's 3 less things to go out on her.

omg_its_nickels

About how i feel right now....

Olds64

I wouldn't use a screwdriver to find TDC. Take the spark plug off and hold your finger over the hole while a friend kicks the starter motor over. When it goes to TDC on the compression stroke it will force your finger off of the hole. Then you can use a flashlight and turn the engine over by hand to get it exact.

J-(Chicago)

X2 on this one.

Lady72nRob71

Yes, ignition timing is 20*. Here is how to check it...
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post140819

I like Olds64's idea better. If the screwdriver binds, it will either break or go through the piston, both are very bad...
If you have a big socket and breaker bar to turn the engine with the crank pulley, that might work easier if by yourself.

Might as well. Even if they are not the problems, having spares is always a good thing. That cap and rotor do look like they are tired...

joe_padavano

I'm not sure why you even care about finding TDC. Simply connect the timing light, aim it at the timing tab, and crank the motor. Either you'll see the timing mark on the balancer or you won't. If you don't see it, buy a timing chain set. If you do see it and it's close to correct, buy tune up parts. Should take all of 5 minutes to do this.

Destructor

I may do my chain on my 70 Cutlass, I'm at almost 80,000 miles. I know it's going to go sometime. Everytime I look at the front of the engine it really looks like a pain to get at especially if the oil pan has to be dropped.

Joeypete

How much power do you get with advanced timing? Do you need to change the gap on the plugs?

Oldsmaniac

You cant really predict if or when a timing chain or gear will fail. I have seen engines with under 100,000 miles with bad timing gears and some well over 150,000 miles with like new gears. I am referring to engines with the nylon/plastic cam gears. A replacement timing chain and gear set (metal)usually last the life of the engine.

omg_its_nickels

From what I can see, it doesn't seem like the pan has to be dropped for mine, it appears as if the cover is directly behind the water pump, so it doesn't seem as hard as I thought it might be, unless i need to replace the cams also cause then i'll prob have to remove the a/c bracket and the fuel pump.

I'll have a final verdict today, as to if the timing jumped or not. I went to storage and can't find my timing light ANYWHERE so i'll just do it the hard way lol. Now is the cam timing 20* clockwise from distributor timing? or the other way around? I can check the crank & dist when I go out there later, but is there a way to make sure the cams are in time?

omg_its_nickels

IT LIVES!!! spark plugs were the culprit... they gave spark, apparently not enough, but after I threw in some acdelco's, the SECOND I turned the key, it fired up... didn't even crank a full revolution and it started right up!!! ran rich for a bit, but she's purring like a kitten now... Just lettin ya know my baby is fixed! I'll be back llater... gonna go wash it! thanks for the help guys, and I might snap more pics later

Lady72nRob71

Glad you found it was the easy things and not the timing chain. Lady luck was with you!

omg_its_nickels

Heck yes, I just went joyriding for about 2 hours or so.. Quiet as a kitten, and next step is to tune it up the rest of the way, and then my favorite part: DETAIL IT!