Bigboy254

I've change the carburetor fuel pump full tune up timing chain oil change distributor kit fuel filter freeze plugs motor mounts transmission mount starter I'm everything that you can possibly do to a motor and the thing isn't getting any gas. Pour gas in the carburetor and it'll stay cranked. Shut it off won't crank. Please somebody help me with this problem.

1970cs

First thing first. Will not crank ( engine does not rotate) Cranks but will not start ( engine turns but will not fire).
By your description #2 is what's happening? Try checking the jumper hoses from the hard fuel lines. Some times they rot crack and draw air but not leak fuel.

Pat

Bigboy254

the car will.crank when the mechanic pours gas directly into the carburetor. Try cranking it up without pouring gas in the carburetor seems like it not getting gas. Now keep in mind this is a new quadrajet carburetor and 4 fuel pumps later and I'm still having these problems. What are the jumper hoses? Are you talking about the hoses from the fuel pump to the fuel lines? If so they have been replaced.

Sugar Bear

Did they reinstall the fuel pump eccentric on the cam gear?

Is there gas in the tank? Don't rely on the gauge.

Bigboy254

[QUOTE=Sugar Bear;1515831]Did they reinstall the fuel pump eccentric on the cam gear?

Is there gas in the tank? Don't rely on the gauge. Yes half of a tank said the cam eccentric was fine. We thought of that initially. That's why he checked it.

69HO43

Clogged fuel line? Dirty fuel sock? Carb fuel filter installed correctly? Float level correct?

Many ways to skin this cat, but this is what I would do:

Remove the fuel line at the carb and run a temporary hose from the end of the fuel line to a catch can. Crank the engine over and see if fuel is actually pumping. If it is, you know where your issues are. It's either the filter or the needle/seat. If it isn't pumping fuel, you can optionally remove supply line to fuel pump, and hook up a hose going into a lawn mower gas can and crank it and see if it pulls fuel. If it passes the gas can test, pump is fine, and keep reading.

Best to have 2 people for this, but 1 can do it.

Remove rubber hoses from fuel pump. Cap the small return line and run the fuel supply line to a catch can like an oil drain pan or something. If fuel gravity flows freely by itself, the sock and line should be good.

If it doesn't, leave the little return line capped and the fuel supply line in the catch can. Then find the charcoal canister "tank" connection line at the canister under the hood and pull it and plug it. Remove gas cap to tank and puff some air into the tank sealing the neck as best as possible. I've been able to use my hand around the neck and hose going into the tank successfully. You don't want to run 150 psi air into it and expand the tank, just puff it enough to get enough pressure to see if anything comes out the fuel line to the catch can. Doesn't take a lot if everything is clear. If nothing, your fuel line or pickup sock is clogged/dirty. Fuel lines rarely get clogged, but it could happen.

If nothing comes out of the line, you'll need to empty and drop the tank and pull your level gage sending unit out and check condition of the pickup line/sock. And you can clean out the tank of likely nearly 40 years of junk at the same time.

If you need new tank parts:

Sending unit: GM# 25027490 or equivalent aftermarket (assuming a 24 gallon tank) and includes the vapor return line. Most all of the delco parts come with a new fuel sock, cam and donut seals. If not, donut seal is GM# 3893116. Cam lock is GM #25124032, ACDelco #TR11.

If you just need a new fuel sock: GM# 5651702, ACDelco TS1000. Hard to find. Jeg's has a good substitute that is very close to the same length and fits like original, however and much cheaper. Jeg's part number is 555-78538 for about 7 bucks.

Sugar Bear

^^^Yup^^^, an excellent diagnostic method/process.

Bigboy254

thanks for the info
where are you located chief
can you please come fix my delta lol

sysmg

just follow his instructions. they are good.

Bigboy254

Well finally narrow it down and followed all the steps that you told me to and the brand new carburetor that I bought in December had failed so i bought another one and slapped it on there and the car runs great like brand new. Now the problem i have now is whenever I leave work coming down the interstate running 75 80 mph right. Okay when I get home and turn it off the car it isn't getting any fire at all. I took the number1 wire off the plug and took a screw driver to see if it is getting any fire and to no prevail nothing. Now when I get up in the morning she fires right on up. Very strange. Can you help me out here I'm puzzled.

69HO43

Two things come to top of mind. Possibly, the laminated coil is spreading apart when it gets hot, and closing up when cold. Throwing spaghetti against the wall here. This is very unlikely and rare, but I'm just putting it on the bulletin board. How's the tune up? You said "distributor kit" whatever that means. I'm assuming that's new cap and rotor? Or new coil, too? You need to ensure you put the right coil in otherwise it can cause the intermittent symptoms you describe. They have two versions of the same type of coil except the polarity. One with yellow/red wires and one with white/red wires. YOU DO NOT WANT THE YELLOW/RED WIRE COIL. The pickup coil is different between makes as well.

Quick check for the pickup coil- if cranking and no spark, then find the EST plug for the distributor and disconnect it. If you have a tachometer, disconnect the TACH lead on the cap too. Likely you'll find it on the passenger side of the distributor somewhere. It has 4 leads to it and is a flat weather-pack plug. Unplug it. Then crank it again and check for spark. If you have spark with the EST plug disconnected, then it's the pickup coil needing replaced. Means you will need to pull the distributor out and take it apart and replace the pickup coil. GM p/n 1977207, or Standard Motor Products LX320. Somtimes they come with different color wires. At any rate, you want the one with clear or black plug on it with green/white or red/white wires. There's also ones with yellow wires and connectors. You don't want yellow plugs.

If no spark, check voltage at BAT cap terminal while cranking. If the result is above 7 volts- with ignition ON, check voltage at TACH terminal. If under 1 volt, replace the coil. If 1-10 volts, replace the ignition module. If under 7 volts, it's in your primary circuit to the ignition switch. If over 10 volts, your pickup coil is likely ok.

Coil you would need is GM p/n 12498336 or aftermarket equivalent. Make sure it's the coil before running out and buying one. They're not real cheap. Not killer, but the GM one is around $50-60 or so. A simple resistance check can help. And if you do replace it, make sure to get the red/white wire version.

There's youtube videos out there to do a resistance check on the coil. You really don't even need to take the coil out of the cap if you don't want to. You should be able to get a good reading anyway. Measure across the two outer terminals and you should get <1 ohm or close to zero. From the center terminal to cap button for the rotor should be anywhere from 3,000-30,000 ohms. Around 10K ohms there is a reasonable expectation. In your case, I'd measure it hot, then again when it's cold and see if there's any change. It's just what I would do to rule out the coil. You don't want zero (short) but yet you don't want infinity either.

Along the same lines, what gap did you set your plugs to? Your emissions/tune-up decal will say to set them to 0.080" and that will put a huge strain on your ignition module and kill it sooner than later. Shorten that gap up to .045" or 0.50". It'll be easier on the ignition modules. Newer setpoints call for 0.060" but I wouldn't go wider.

Second, and more than likely, is your ignition module is starting to give up the ghost. This is where I'd put my money. It may be on its way out. Normally, they work, or they don't. But I've also seen them decide to slowly die, where they work sometimes and other times not. But it won't be long now if it is the module. You need specialized testing equipment to test a module completely, so most of the time, it's sacrificial and replaced when suspected. There's a bunch of tests you can do to determine if it's the module exactly in the CSM, but I'm not going to decipher all that crap. It's two screws and some wire clips after removing the rotor. Be careful with the wires. These connectors can get brittle over the years and cause issues if they break and wires come apart. Inspect the wiring too.

If you find it's the module, the 85 VIN Y 307 engine typically takes the 7 pin module. GM p/n 19179581, or aftermarket equivalent. Standard Motor Products lists it under LX315. The most important part is to ENSURE you put the heat sink grease between the mounting plate and the module metal base for good heat transfer. Don't put it on with plain dielectric grease or something other than heat sink grease. The old GM parts used to come with a little heat sink grease packet, maybe some others do as well. Without it, it's a death sentence for a module.
I personally use Super Lube 98003 heat sink grease. You don't need much. A little goes a long way.


These are just some ideas on where to start to look. This doesn't mean these are the problems. Works when cold, but not when hot isn't a lot of info to go on.

Olds64

^^^THIS^^^

These modules cutting out while hot is a classic failure. I keep a spare in my glovebox. The only work around is to buy a quality part. Get the AC Delco 19179581. Don't waste money on a parts store cheapie.

Bigboy254

need your help again. Changed all the components that you listed above. Im mean replaced everything. Now the thing just started popping all of a sudden like a backfire out the carb or like its overloading. I need to bring my delta to you so that you can fix it right if possible. What in the hell is going on here. Im spending money like its nobody's business. In need of desperate help.

69HO43

One thing to consider doing all this work to your car. All I'm making are suggestions. I am not saying "this is your problem, so do this". I'm simply giving you information to hopefully help you decide for yourself on a path for repairing your problem. I'm not there, I can't see or hear anything. I'm simply going off of experience mostly. I haven't been, nor ever will be, a professional mechanic. Simply throwing money at it is risky. It's known as "shot-gunning." You need to isolate the problem(s) and fix those. Sometimes it takes 5 minutes, sometimes it takes 5 days. Sometimes even longer.

Sounds like it may be a timing issue since it appeared all of a sudden. You could have a plug wire mixed up after putting in new plugs? I dunno. I hope your timing chain isn't failing. Many times on these old cars is when you fix something here, it affects something over there, and puts new strains on old parts and the weak link gets exposed.

Did you time it lately? There's a specific method on doing the timing on these cars with a normal timing light. You need to find the ALDL connector at the bottom of the dashboard and ground the A and B terminals with a bent metal paper clip or jumper wire when you're checking/setting the timing to 20 degrees BTDC @ 1100 RPM in PARK (All 1985 307s are at this spec). Your emissions label should be coded SBF. If you can still read it, all the tune-up info should be on it. If not, that information is on page 6E1-192 in the 1985 CSM. Oh, just seen your spark plugs aren't set at 0.080" from the factory. They're 0.060". So if you're using this gap, that's fine, just don't go wider than 0.060". My bad. I deal mostly with 84/85 VIN 9 307s which use the flat tappet cam engines still with the R46SX plug. Your car should use the FR3LS6 plugs.

TIMING CHECK- Check balancer for the TDC mark and make sure you can see it. Many of us blind bastages put some white paint or white-out on the balancer mark to make it easier to see. Wipe off any grease on the timing tab so you can see the degree markings. If you find the 20 degree mark on the timing tab, suggest maybe putting a dot of white on it as well so all you would have to do is match up the white marks. Set up timing light keeping any wires away from moving belts/components. Start car. After it's running, ground A & B terminals on the ALDL which puts it into diagnostic mode. Check engine timing with light. If already at 20 degrees, good, or once you loosen the distributor hold down bolt and rotate the distributor to put it at 20 degrees and distributor hold down bolt is re-tightened, leave running and remove ground wire. Then you can turn off the car.

One thing also to look at is while checking timing is your timing mark "bounce" or flutter. Normally, the timing mark may flutter a very slight amount on a used engine because of timing chain stretch. A hair of flutter is nothing to write home about. But if it's varying several degrees above and below the desired timing mark, your timing chain MAY need to be replaced. The factory used nylon gear teeth on an aluminum hub and once age and mileage gets to them, they SOMETIMES start chucking teeth to the point the timing chain is loose as a goose to the point of bad timing flutter or worse, like jumping time. Not to mention the nylon gear chunks getting into the oil pan and getting sucked up into the oil pump. That's worst case, but not sure if your engine was ever worked on. If you EVER take your engine apart to the point of exposing the timing chain, replace the nylon gear and timing chain set to a good aftermarket one with steel gears regardless of how good the original nylon gear looks. You won't hear it and it will give you peace of mind that it should last longer. It's kind of a PITA to do so if your engine is ever down that far, get that OEM nylon gear set outta there.

The steps below show you how to read any codes from your computer when the engine isn't running and key is on because it's typically used for general troubleshooting. But this also shows you where to ground that A&B terminal in case you're not aware of where those terminals are. Good luck.

Bigboy254

The car started popping after we put the new distributor, coil,cap,and rotor in. Before this we also put a new timing chain in but the mechanic didn't use the tools that you describe above.( probably used some old school knowledge) but I don't really know because I wasn't there. I didn't mind replacing all those parts because It need them anyway. I really want to thank you for all the advice that you have given me

69HO43

So if the mechanic put them in, why isn't HE fixing the problem? If he didn't set the timing by grounding the A to B terminals on the ALDL, he did it wrong. If he didn't do anything but try and set the timing with the computer in the loop and active, he did it wrong. I sure hope he didn't UNPLUG the distributor connector under the hood for the computer to set the timing. That would be a bad idea. The car immediately goes into limp home mode when that happens and locks timing in at a certain amount and it will be WRONG. The A to B ground procedure above is what to use for setting the timing on your car. Period.

New HEI? Man, those things are virtually impossible to kill with a VIN Y 307. Unless the bushings were worn slap out, just replacing bad components in the existing distributor would be more cost efficient. The brand new distributors that I'm aware of are the vacuum advance can-equipped ones. You DEFINITLEY can't use one of those.

Regardless, I'd still check to make sure polarity is correct on the coil and pickup. Popping and not playing well are signs of incorrect polarity. I'm not saying that's the issue, but it's free to check. Remember, on the pickup coil you want a clear or black plug with red/white wires, or green/white wires. Also, the distributor coil needs red/white wires. If you see yellow plugs or wires on either of these, they're likely wrong for your Olds.

Sugar Bear

With popping/misfiring after a new cap and rotor? I'd triple check the firing order.