1Fastolds

I've decided to start a new thread, but I decided to take apart the brakes and check them out to see why I failed for too much pressure from the LF brakes. Delaware DMV measures brake pressure with a skid plate type thing, that, and when braking, it pulls to the left.

Took the fronts apart, and found that the LF shoes are worn down, with signs of hot spots on the drums. The right front are a little thicker, but not by much. But I found that the LF rear upper control arm bushing is completely gone. That doesn't help things, since the LF wheel slams back when hitting the brakes.

I need to find out what the measurements are for the drums. I'll take them and get them measured and if they are resurface-able, I'll get them done. Hopefully, they don't need to be replaced, as I imagine that they are expensive.

So, right now, I'm searching for upper and lower control arm bushings, sway bar bushings, and front shoes. Possibly drums. RockAuto.com has the bushings. I'm curious about the shoes, as the ones on there now have a groove in the middle- by design. All the pictures online show one solid shoe. If you were me, where would you source all these parts at to maintain a lower budget?

Thanks
Adam

aussie oldsmobile 98

adam ,
im very interested in your post ,i wish i had answers .... i got front end bushes off amazon would you believe it ,cheeper than everyone i could find ,+( got to australia in about 5 days ).why amazon.... mainly because i could not get a reply on questions /shippin to Oz from sum /all of the "big parts sellers " ..one big store i tried buy a reco brake booster..they said they had it in stock, paid for it etc ....bugger me ....no stock waited ages to get a refund....no im not tryin to be nasty / or be a cranky aussie ..just the lack of help from o/s bussiness really peeves me ....(end of rant!)
good luck
gino

Don R.

Adam, I bought the shoes at NAPA and got a full bushing/ball joint/rod end kit from PST on Ebay. Watch out for the drums from Kanter, they are NOT direct replacements for stock and have a lot of fit issues. I bought them and had to send them back. Stock replacement drums are hard to find.

1Fastolds

Don, thanks for the insight on the drums from Kanter. I was really hoping that it would have been that easy. I'm going to make a trip to Napa, since I like to use their oil filters instead of the Delco ones that have taken a turn for the worse.

So finding replacement drums may be an issue? Is it an issue enough to warrant the consideration of a disc brake conversion? After all the talk of keeping the drums, I am really hoping to keep them now.

Thanks
adam

MDchanic

I wouldn't worry about the drums too much. If they don't throb or pulsate, and they're not badly pitted, they should be fine. If you want to have a shop clean them up, that's fine, but I doubt they'd need much.

You need to check the other elements of the brakes: slave cylinders, springs, and adjusters. I'd get new adjusters and springs, as well as shoes, and be sure to pull the pistons out of the cylinders and make sure they are clean inside. If not, replace them, too. All cheap parts, and should not be hard to find.

- Eric

1Fastolds

Well, that's the problem, I do have a front pulsation. And the driver's side has heat spots on it. The springs, wheel cylinders and hoses all look fairly new, which coincides with what the previous owner told me. But all in all, what you are saying makes sense. I think he didn't replace the drums because of the issues getting ones that aren't junk.
adam

Don R.

After I found I couldn't use the Kanter drums I took my stock drums to my local NAPA store. They measured them and I had enough meat for a cut so I was able to reuse them. The trick with old drums like that is to talk to the guy doing the machining, you want them to take their time and only cut the bare minimum needed to true them up. Some less experienced parts store guys set that machine to kill and overcut them. If your drums don't measure out its not impossible to find drums but it may take some time and cost some money to get good ones.


A comment on the hydraulics, even if the cylinders look recent pull back all the dust covers and be sure there are no leaks. And if the master cylinder doesn't look brand new I'd replace it, new ones are available from Fusick. It's not worth messing around with a single pot master, if it goes you have no brakes. One thing I've learned with the hundreds of cars I've owned, brakes are the most owner neglected system and almost every car I've bought used needed some type of brake work before it was safe to drive! OK, off the soapbox...

1Fastolds

can someone tell me what the maximum drum diameter of the front drums are? I have the bell-shaped 11" (or 11 1/2") drums with the 2 1/2 wide shoes. I haven't gotten a manual yet and google is not helping me.


One drum measures 11.030" while the other one is a whopping 11.430". My knowledge probably says that one is bad and the other one is good. Can't find any bell shaped drums out there, except for a few places (and one wants ALOT of money) There is one used one on Ebay, and that might be an option.


Thank you for helping the new guy!
Adam

1Fastolds

Don- I'm not sure if I'm looking in the wrong place, but fusick only lists wheel cylinders for our cars, no master cylinders. Any idea on where I can find a newer style master cylinder that fits our cars? I got the impression that Fusick got out of the brake game with our car. I could be wrong.

adam

Don R.

Fusick still has them. Go to their site, download catalog 22BC, they are on page 34. I think #36136 is the one for your car. Not cheap but worth it in my opinion. I'd print out that whole catalog and pick up anything you need because Starfires are not big business for them so they may phase things out.


Editorial comment: Some people complain about Fusick's prices being too high and talk about places like Rock Auto, Auto Warehouse, etc. I've ordered from all and found that all the cheap stuff was, big surprise, CRAP. Everything I ordered from Fusick was top quality and the service was great. You really do get what you pay for in my opinion.

1Fastolds

Don, are the master cylinders listed on page 34 the dual reservoir ones that people have discussed upgrading to?

Apparently, on Craigslist, there is a 63 starfire being parted out by a scrapyard in Philly. I'm thinking roadtrip on saturday! There's a guy on Ebay parting one out that has the drum listed that I need. I was thinking of seeing if I can get that one to go with my one good one and moving on.

On a side note, I got my 9c1 wheels today from Ebay. I think I've decided on the 215/70r15 Firestone Precision Touring tires, since they are in my price range and have my coveted white walls. I just have to get the brakes, suspension and everything else up to speed to put them on.

Adam

Don R.

The master I quoted is a stock replacement single pot which is what I used on my car. I'm sure you can find a dual master if you want to convert but I can't tell you which one would fit. I did not do that because clearance is pretty tight on my car but its a good upgrade.

mpolds

Am in the library and saw this thread also -- so figured I'd put an answer in here, too, so you are sure to see it.....

I have the correct master cylinder (a single) and the replacement ( a dual) if you want to convert to a dual four wheel drum master cylinder for safety's sake.... I also have the wheel cylinders, brake hoses, wheel bearings, and seals -- All U.S.A. Made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and that one last pair of "BIG BELLS"
++ Originial KELSEY-HAYES ++ Front Brake Drums.......

Want to this car right -- that, of course, is the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll call you tonight, Adam, or call me ---
Craig -- 516 - 485 - 1935.... New York.....

mpolds

Hey, we didn't discuss it the other night -- but I also have the ENTIRE FRONT END -- in N.O.S. U.S.A. made parts -- Upper & Lower BAll Joints, Upper & Lower Control Arm Bushings, Inner & Outer Tie Rods & Sleeves, Idler Arm & Center Link (for both TRW and Saginaw Steering)
(99% of 98 s got Saginaw (Heavy Duty) Steering -- 50/50 on 88s)
Stabilizer Links, Sway Bar Frame Bushings, Coil Springs, and Shocks>....

I'll call you tonight -- or call me when you get in.....

1Fastolds

Progress is being made!
Got the upper arms off, new bushings pressed in, awaiting re-installation. I've ordered a set of "bell" drums and shoes from Craig "mobileparts" here on the forum. They are NOS parts. I looked around and found some used drums, and apparently some not-so-good reproductions. Decided to go with what I know works- NOS GM stuff. Patiently awaiting their arrival from New York, hopefully this weekend!

I got my 15" Caprice 9C1 steel wheels last week. I sold my SSIII wheels to a friend of mine, and as we are talking, he tells me he has 5 15" tires just taking up space. He gave them to me. In the size I was looking at, with whitewalls as well! 3 of the 5 have never been installed. 2 are used. 4 tires match. They are a few years old, but I figure if I can get the rest of the expensive stuff addressed, I can put tires on it a little later on. So now I have 5 15" wheels mounted and balanced with the whitewalls out!

Hopefully, the brakes and suspension repairs will fix my inspection issue, and I think I'll have it appraised before registering it- that way I'll only have to give the state of DE what they deserve, and not what they think I should give them.

Thanks
Adam

MDchanic

PLease let us know how the parts from that seller are.

He has advertised a lot (and has only advertised) on this forum, but I've seen no evidence of anyone buying from him.

- Eric

1Fastolds

Craig from mobileparts seems like a good guy. I haven't received my parts yet, but he seems straight up and easy to deal with. The reason he doesn't post much, but to advertise, is that he is an older guy without a computer. He's been selling NOS parts for 43 years, mostly at shows and swap meets. He goes to the library to get on the computer and advertise to the people he won't reach at shows. He doesn't accept paypal or credit cards. You have to send a postal money order for his wares. It definitely seems like he is not computer savvy, as I found it is easier to reach him by calling the number he gave out. My understanding is that he only buys/sells NOS stuff, mostly GM and Mopar. He's not a "car guy" per say, but a "parts guru".


Like I said, I haven't received my parts, as I only sent the MO on Monday, but I'll make sure to fill everyone in on my transaction. I have never met Craig before, but I've talked to him several times and the shortest conversation I've had with him is 45 minutes. He knows his stuff. genuinely a solid guy. (who is also currently shoveling out from under something like a foot of snow)


I'll keep you guys posted!
Adam

mpolds

It is Thursday, at 2:30 P.M. -- and had to do something non-automotive in regard to an article Newsday is going to publish in regards to Olympic Hockey and the Greatest USA Born players ever -- so I had to send it to them, by computer.....

Saw your comment, and I thank you, Adam, I think I need to make you my television spokesman!!! (Since I am older, I think they say I have a face made for radio!!!!!)

To you, Eric, and all others, I am a regular guy with some phenomenal N.O.S. U.S.A. made parts for Oldsmobile, the rest of G M, as well as Mopar and Ford -- and am "branching out" to the computer world -- but I am a traditional "old school" guy -- who is at Carlisle 5 times a summer, Hershey, Rhinebeck, NY, Mansfield, Mass., Macungie, Stafford Springs, Thompson Speedway, and approximately 25 - 30 shows a year.....
If it's hot at the shows; stop by, check out my spread, and I always have cold water bottles for --- free ----- for all of my friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, Adam, after I leave here in a few, I'll swing by home and check my mail -- It comes around 2:30 on Non - SNOWY days!!!!! and of course, get your order out IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only way to be a MAN!!

MDchanic

Not trying to knock you, Craig, I was just asking Adam for feedback.

We do occasionally see sellers who magically pop up with the perfect NOS part, but who somehow never seem to mail it out (it's a well-known internet scam), so we tend to be cautious. Unfortunateky, it's a case of one jerk ruining things for the rest of us.

I'm glad to hear you're at the shows, though I pretty much only go to Englishtown these days. Let us know your space numbers, as I bet a lot if guys would line to stop by and say Hi. My old man goes to Hershey, and I can send him by your spot, too.

When Adam reports back to us, don't be surprised if you get a bunch of new customers all at around the same time.

Cheers!

- Eric

m371961

I am suprised no one commented that the Delaware DMV has a fancy expensive setup to test brakes but did not catch the upper control arm bushing that the OP says was gone. Man, I am glad my state currently has no inspection on unmodified classics.

1Fastolds

It's not "fancy", they have a skid pad that measures brake pressure. The guy who was doing the "inspection" informed me that I should also address the suspension, but I'm sure that he was pointing to the rear of the vehicle. But I could be wrong on that. They don't put the car on the lift or anything. I like that my 64 has absolutely no emission testing.

Adam

copper128

Years ago when I lived in Florida, they used the same type of setup. I always thought it was kind of BS because there was no visual inspection of the brakes and no repeat test to see if the readings were consistent. So as long as the brakes produced the pre-determined amount of pressure in a single test, you pass. If not you fail. No one checks to see if you have enough friction material left on the pads/shoes, if your rotors/drums are out of spec or concentric, or even if the brake lines are rusty or rotted.

Here in NY, the wheels have to be removed and brakes visually inspected by the mechanic. He also checks the entire front steering/suspension setup.

Florida did away with it's vehicle safety inspection program a long time ago.

mpolds

Appreciate your comments, Eric, and you have EVERY right to be sceptical these days -- too many yo-yos (I could use much stronger language) DO ruin it for us regular guys of the world.....
I am new to the computer world -- because I am an "old school" go to 35 shows a year (Down to 25 -- I've had to trim the "useless: or "rinky-dink" ones because of the mere price of gas to go and do shows that just don't work -- can't do a 1 day -- 28 hour show with driving to and from -- and not even cover the cost of gas, tolls, and the vendor fees!!!!) (like Cowtown in South Jersey, Timnonium, Md., Dodd Stadium in Norwich, Ct., etc. etc.)
I want to take care of Adam -- and all of you -- the way I do everyone --
Perfectly, No "Issues", and many happy returns....
I give out my home phone number -- and the last thing I would want is phone calls at 2:00 AM cursing me out for being a "dirtbag" or worse.
My prices are fair (maybe, too fair I've been told!!) but I have to sleep at night -- and I don't ever want to be accused of being a "rapist".....
I WELCOME YOU ALL to come visit my spreads at shows -- at Englishtown, I'm at RI23 in the Spring, RI27 in the fall (right behind the P.C. Richard trailer) -- At Hershey, I'm in RCC97-98, the first vendor in the RED field -- if you come out Chocolate World's front doors and walk toward Hershey Stadium. At Great Woods / Tweeter Center / Comcast Center in Mansfield, Mass. the second week of May -- I'm in Field 2, Row PP, Spots 1 - 2, right on the corner....... Remember, always FREE bottles of water (so you don't have to spend "captive audience" prices at the shows!!!! -- And I have to spend for the water and ICE -- but I'm known for that!!!
Yours, always, Craig --------------------

MDchanic

RI23 - I'll stop by and say Hi in April, then! (but I've always got a bottle of water and a snack with me ).

We're always in F or G, somewheres around 60 (I can never remember), but we're usually walkin' instead of sellin'.

- Eric

mpolds

Hey, to all you guys who "haven't sampled by goodies" before -- or haven't dealt with me -- I received Adam's payment, yesterday, Monday, feb. 10th
-- and SENT his order, Monday, Feb. 10th via UPS -- and Adam will be receiving it today, February 11th.... I also gave him courtesy calls with the
thank you for payment, heads up that the package will be there today, and the tracking number should he care to track it. (he will have it before he even bothers to track it!!!! UP, is of course, the shipping GIANT.)

You can be rest assured that when you deal with me -- there is NO "BS" and I deal with people the way I like getting dealt with -- life is too short for enemies......

Eric, DEFINITELY STOP BY and Say HI -- I saw you are from Maine which is why I included my spot at the Tweeter Center, which is Massachusetts' biggest show ....
I am also at Spring Carlisle, for other "CO" members -- at Spots I i 118 - 119, The middle of the Infield, Row I, spots 118 - 119.
Mention that you are a "CO" member and I will throw you an extra discount.... have to state that 99 % of the guys I've dealt with so far are A - O K in my book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanx, Craig.......

1Fastolds

So, as Craig mentioned in the above post, I got my shoes and drums from him at MobileParts today. I would have had them sooner, except the Post Office took a week to send a money order to him from MD to NY.

They are awesome! Drums have scratches and whatnot on the outside, but that is assumed when you are dealing with NOS parts- nothing a coat of paint won't fix! Everything is exactly as Craig described, they are the exact replacement for the front drum set that is trashed on my 64 right now.

Craig is very easy to deal with, just as long as you call him, rather than trying to deal with him on the internet. He seems to know exactly what he has in stock and what the prices are, like a walking parts catalog. He kept me informed as to when the money order finally arrived, and left me a tracking number for the parts when they were shipped out. Prices are fair and reasonable, even the shipping costs. You do have to understand that there are times that you do have to pay for the parts you want. I've read several places about the reproduction drums out there and how they don't fit right, but you know what you are getting with NOS stuff.

If there is a part you are looking for to make your Olds ride like it did the day it rolled off the assembly line, you should definitely give him a call. I'll be calling him again in a few days to get some other stuff from him, like a ignition lock cylinder and probably some other things. I look forward to meeting him hopefully at the spring Carlisle show this year.

Now I just gotta figure out how to get the hubs off the old drums and onto the new ones. 1 step at a time!

Adam

1Fastolds

Forgot the picture!

MDchanic

They look great. Fantastic!

- Eric

1Fastolds

Is it alright to be excited about getting brake parts in the mail? Better than Christmas!


Also, MDchanic, I like the name under "MDchanic", "Connoisseur d'Junque". I took 4 years of french and can't speak a lick of it, but I might steal that for personal use.

Thanks!
Adam

MDchanic

Well, I did make it up myself, and I am the only person or other entity in the entire world using it...

- Eric

aikmanolds

Adam - i wondered if the shoes are solid or grooved in the center? My experience in the past was the grooved shoes (in the front anyway) were less likely to squeak when worn.

1Fastolds

The shoes that I received from Craig at MobileParts do not have the groove in the center, like the ones I am taking off. They are riveted though.

(I'm taking a break from working on it right now!)

Adam

mpolds

I am here in the library using computer, and want to say "Thank You" especially to Adam and to all you guys....
Letting all you





guys know at "CO" that Adam is a great guy -- and if you have dealings with him; you will be happy you have another friend for life..

The answer to that brake shoes question -- is YES, brake shoes, that have that cooling groove in the middle are the ABSOLUTE best -- and while I do have them for some applications, None for the 1949 - 1964 Olds (the #160 brake shoe) at this moment in time.....

I am picking up two more loads of ++ asbestos ++ shoes in the spring --
100 or so sets in the Philly area, and about 50 sets from my friend Rich in the Massachusetts area at the Tweeter Center show......

So you never know what I'll have in the future -- because I don't know what I'll have in the future !!!!!!!! if you catch my gist ----- but ADAM has my very last set of OEM Kelsey-Hayes Front "BIG BELL" Brake Drums!!!!

Adam -- hope you saw my enclosure of the HUB & DRUMS sheet and what a machine shop has to do to mount the Drum to the Hub.....Talk to you, and thanks again......

1Fastolds

got the brakes done. new tires and wheels/wheel covers also installed. Here's some pics!







I cut all the old studs off, pressed the hubs on, installed new studs. Machined drums with hubs installed. I did not "swage" the new studs in, as I don't have the tools or could I find anyone that could.

Let me know what you think!
Adam

MDchanic

Looks great!

And thanks, of course, to Craig.

Hope she gives you a lot of miles!

- Eric

lshlsh2

Looks good

Larry

Don R.

Looks great, the bigger wheels fit the car better IMO.

1Fastolds

Definitely. She rides a lot better. Between the brakes, upper control arm bushings and the tires/wheels, she rides almost right. I've been thinking about lowering it a bit, but my wife likes it the way it is. Either way, I'm digging it. I get so many looks when driving it, and I have barely driven it, as it's not street legal yet.

Next stop is to get it appraised so I can get it through inspection and registered.

I can't decide between a vanity tag that reads "sled" or "friday" (which is my last name)

Adam